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Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.
Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Well, hello, Shawna. Hi, Mike, how are you?
Shawnna Weber: Good. Thank you for having me on the show today.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Absolutely. Hey Shawna, for those that haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell our listener. Why we're talking
Shawnna Weber: tonight. I'm Shawnna Weber. I'm the CEO of California based Edgewood Business Solutions.
And we support many independent pharmacies with their bookkeeping and financial strategies. And those are often overlooked by busy pharmacy owners. They're busy running their pharmacy, and there's a lot of paperwork that needs to happen on the backend. So we wanted to kind of uncover some of those different aspects of the bookkeeping tasks that need to be done.
You know, to help their pharmacy be successful.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. Cause if you listen to pharmacists, they're going to be bitch all the time about the reimbursement or the DIR fees and how much they're getting paid and all that kind of stuff. But sometimes in the midst of that, there. Maybe not forgetting, but it's not so intriguing, I suppose to think about when they should be giving a raise or how much it's going to cause turnover and employee or, you know, when they should be calling their accountant and when they should be doing this because.
Easier just to focus on the beast than to think about the other stuff. Do you see that with pharmacists?
Shawnna Weber: Absolutely. Because they're spending their time where they know what they need to do. And when it comes to bookkeeping or paperwork, or maybe negotiating the rent, it makes them feel uncomfortable and they really don't want to do it.
And so sometimes they avoid doing those important tasks and it does affect their business. But the other thing that they can do is if they don't love it, You know, it's causing stress for them. It's a really good area to delegate or to outsource
Mike Koelzer, Host: You find a business that has owners. What they like, and there's nothing wrong with that because I've always asked the question.
Like if someone were to give me a hundred million dollars and they said, use this somehow in business, the natural inclination for a pharmacist would be to take that money, open up a bunch of pharmacies, but then you're going to be on the 20th floor of some high rise running the pharmacy. From there. And a lot of people just don't want to go that route.
So the opposite of that would be doing things they love in the pharmacy, but the things they don't love, it kind of gets forgotten about specialty. Until the last minute. And so like when you say negotiating rent, tell me about that. For
Shawnna Weber: example. Well, if you're leasing and your lease is coming due, you have to think of all of the options that you're going to have.
Um, more than likely a landlord knows that you want to stay there. But if you say you're experiencing this. Being in a situation that we are in right now, you have some leverage and you might want to be having those discussions with your landlord that you'd like to renegotiate your lease. If you don't have the conversation, the answer is always no.
Um, but your landlord may be open to renegotiating that lease. And you'd also don't want to miss the least ending dates where the lease automatically renews. So if your lease requires that you give a 90 day notice and you aren't doing. That could be a potential issue for you. So you really want to start having those discussions and calendar those dates, um, and give yourself that opportunity to renegotiate some of those lease leases that you have.
Mike Koelzer, Host: The problem with me though, is I'd have to calendar them like a snooze alarm,
Shawnna Weber: five different reminders. We do that. Yeah. Let's say
Mike Koelzer, Host: your lease is due July 1st and. I don't want to see it for the first time on June 1st. I need to see it on March 1st so I can snooze it for a month, just like I do in bed, you know?
Shawnna Weber: Absolutely. I mean, you should set multiple notices, especially for something like that. But I would say even, it's not just your Elise's, if you have a shredding company or you have medical waste, um, there's a large company that you have to be very careful with. If you don't. Give them enough notice.
I mean, you're stuck with them for another lease term and it's really hard to get out of because
Mike Koelzer, Host: they might have like a three-year lease or something like that.
Shawnna Weber: Yes. And they have a really good department where they do not want to let you out of your contract. And so you really have to be mindful of that.
So not just. Rental leases, but also other services, all kinds
Mike Koelzer, Host: of stuff. And I know I fall victim to that victim, I, I often will set something up on a credit card and you, a lot of times you don't, you're not going through the credit card to look at those. And you know, it could be a hundred, I don't know, a hundred bucks on some fax service or this or that before, you know it, you've got a few of those.
You got, you know, five grand into it for the.
Shawnna Weber: Yeah. Just think of what you could [00:05:00] do with five grand. I could blow
Mike Koelzer, Host: that some other way, a little vacation,
Shawnna Weber: something that's right. At least it would be on purpose and you wouldn't be ignoring it. But that's a lot of times what we find is it's just the business owners, they're busy.
And then on the weekends, they want to spend time with their families or doing something else. And the last thing they want to do is this whole bookkeeping or, you know, that sort of thing. And so many recurring charges, just go. You know, unnoticed or, and dealt with, and I'll deal with that later. It's only 120 a year.
And then pretty soon it's five of those, having a dedicated person, you know, helping you with that and bringing that to the forefront of your mind is important. You know, that you don't have to do it all. And that sometimes you do need help.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. We had one that I got screwed on one time and it was probably my fault, but it was this company that came in and did our runner rugs, you know?
So the runner rugs are, I dunno, let's say they're 20 feet long and six feet wide. And in Michigan, you know, we'll get three of them in the winter or something like that. And these guys would come in and they would. Deliver them. And then they would go to the cash register. I mean, not to the cat, but to the other, the correct side of the cash register and give it to one of our employees.
And they would say it's X dollars today. And they would pay them on the spot. Kind of like an old paper boy, you know, with the change thing, not billed to us. Well, I never really looked at that closely because I never wrote the check for that. And at the time I was writing all the checks for everything, but that's one thing that didn't show up on my credit card.
Didn't show up in the checking account, but it was an ungodly amount of money. I went to Lowe's and I could practically buy these rugs. You know, they come on these humongous rolls and you're cut on whatever length you want them. I could buy three of those for the price that they were charging me every two weeks or something for those.
Shawnna Weber: Absolutely. And again, sometimes people think, well, this is just a small amount, but if you think of all of the different things in your business, and again, you're busy, you know, running the front end of your pharmacy, some of the backend things that go on, notice their costs. They're very costly.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Devil's advocate here.
Shauna, you say Mike or whomever, we're going to remind you about these things. We're going to bring them to your attention and all this stuff. And then I say, Well, great. Now I'm just going to hate Shauna because every time I see her, she's going to remind me of all these nasty things I want to do. The only way that you could, the only way that you could take that away from me though, is I'd like to have you do some of those things for us.
Do you guys, or are there services that you would like, do? Negotiating or doing these kinds of things or do we just tell the pharmacist then? All right. It's time go do
Shawnna Weber: it. It depends on the type of contract, but absolutely. If you had a, you know, some subscription you weren't using anymore, it may be we'll help.
We'll get that canceled for you. You don't have to worry. Just tell us you're not using it. We'll deal with it. Or you say, or we say, Hey, this. The shredding service is costing you a lot of money. We think we can renegotiate that for you. Can we handle that? And you say yes, or they may just need you to get on the phone and say, we give Shawna authorization to, you know, to speak with you because sometimes that will happen.
Um, and that's what we try to do because really you're busy and we can bring it to your attention. And we're kind of like the accountability person, but. We also want to remind you, like you, you have this business for specific reasons, it's for freedom it's to earn more money, right? So it's like someone who wants to diet and exercise.
It's like you have to be willing to do it. Or maybe you just need a coach to help you along to get that done.
Mike Koelzer, Host: I've heard of that one time diet and exercise. I gotta look that up again. See what that's all about,
Shawnna Weber: But I have an accountability coach because I know the secret. I know that diet and exercise is what's going to help me lose weight.
You know, I need someone to push me along to say, Hey, I need you to check in this Friday on what you're doing. So it's just, you know, it just depends on what your needs are. So you may have us nagging you that, you know, we need you to cancel this service and you just get tired of that. So you finally do it, but we saved you, you know, a thousand dollars a year because we nagged you till you got it.
Otherwise, it just, it just went, flew off, flew out the window. You just toss money out the
Mike Koelzer, Host: window. Yeah. All right, Sean. I, I brought this up a couple podcasts ago and we used to have these people and they would show up and they would say we're a great consulting business and we're going to save you money and you know, the problem.
They would have come from, you know, the week before they came to our place, they were in a veterinarian clinic and then they were at an oil change shop and then they were here. And so there's obviously a value. You can always get some value out of it. But I think the value is having somebody that works on [00:10:00] similar.
Account. And I think the cool thing about your businesses, you deal with a lot of pharmacies. We
Shawnna Weber: do, and we have a lot of medical practices as well. And some of those practices have in-office dispensaries because they're not retail. And some of our pharmacies, um, deal with long-term care facilities. So we have both retail and closed.
Pharmacies. So we do have a lot of experience in that
Mike Koelzer, Host: whole realm. You're gaining more knowledge essentially than I am, because you're looking, you're finding all the problems and, and you're gaining that compounded knowledge, let's say. Absolutely. So knowing that there's people out there like me that are going to say, you don't know my business and this and that, how do you get in the door of these places?
To say, look, I understand you're independent. I know, you know, your business, you've been there for 30 years, but here's how I might be able to help. How do you guys do it? Well, let's, let's go to the very beginning. How do you even begin that conversation? Do you call, do you stop in, what, what do you do with, uh, let's say a pharmacist who thinks he's too busy.
He or she is too busy.
Shawnna Weber: Usually we have one of our other pharmacy clients. They're advocates for us. Um, they will give a referral or a phone call and just say, you know why they need to work with us. That's really our, we have a lot of advocates for what we do.
Mike Koelzer, Host: There's a difference between a referral source, you know, having someone in your three ring binder or something, and actually calling them.
The pharmacist. So those people that you asked your clients that you ask, are they actually the first ones that approach another pharmacist? Like in other words, if I owned a pharmacy and I was using you, would you say, Hey, Mike, I'd like to maybe do some work with Steve's. It is your next question to me, Mike, could you call up Steve and tell them about us?
I
Shawnna Weber: would say, Hey Mike, would it be okay if I used your name with Steve and it, would it be okay if he contacts you? If he would like to speak about our services. And a lot of times we find. Again, in your peer groups, someone may have a conversation like, oh, I'm struggling with this in my business. Or I hate doing, I hate doing my bookkeeping.
And it's like, Hey, we use Shawna and her firm, and she's really helped us. And, you know, things like PPP, I'm curious, like the SBA paycheck protection program where people are ready for that, were there books in order? Or was it like, oh my gosh, they're scrambling to try to get something in order to be able to apply.
So we actually had a life with clients because of that, who we did help get them up to speed. From a referral from another
Mike Koelzer, Host: pharmacist. I see. So you're going in there and you can at least name drop. You're not going in cold to them, which helps a lot.
Shawnna Weber: I'm sure. Right. Because again, finances are a very intimate kind of thing where people don't want to.
Handed over to someone they don't know. I mean, it's a little scary and intimidating and sometimes it's like, well, you haven't reconciled your bank for the last 10 months and you might be a little embarrassed about it. And so if I just show up off the streets, like who is this person? How do I know that they know anything about pharmacy?
And even if I drop some words in there about DIR fees and things like that, it doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about. Right. Like people will drop in certain words, but if you have that
Mike Koelzer, Host: referral, I'm the king of name-dropping and not knowing what the hell I'm talking about. So you're talking to the right man.
The
Shawnna Weber: buzzwords are great, but it doesn't mean people know what they're talking about. And that's really the scariest thing is when you let someone into your finances and if they don't know what they're doing, you know, you don't want them to wreak havoc either. And I think that's what people are afraid of.
But if you can talk to, again, talk to your peer or someone, you know, in the industry that's utilizing that service or a CPA. It's helpful. You
Mike Koelzer, Host: mentioned two things that are close to my heart. This last year, things got so bad for us for a bit there that I was looking at either selling or working on getting a loan or refinancing some loans.
And my books were a disaster because we had a bunch of shift changes and I got rid of our bookkeeper a while back. We never did a good job getting back. And so. Thankfully now business has turned around a little bit for some things that I've done, but I really couldn't have sold at that time because my books were so crappy.
And then there is that embarrassing figure, because since about the first of the year now we're with a new firm. But since about the first of the year, my books have been junk. They were just junk. I was just basically opening up checks and, and sending into the bank without doing any kind of a reconciliation or anything.
It's like, I didn't have time. I didn't have the desire. And it's the old cliche of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic is like, I was just trying to stay afloat and I figure out I'll get that crap figured out
Shawnna Weber: later on. Yeah. And was it, I mean, did it make you feel stressed out when you thought, oh, you have this kind of little bookkeeping monster over here that, you know, you're going to have to deal with, but you don't have time.
And then now you need to apply for even HHS, like, like how are you going to [00:15:00] apply for PPP, HHS and the funds or grants that you desire. But now you have to just throw it all together. It's a little stressful. It was
Mike Koelzer, Host: probably less stressful and probably more embarrassing. You know, that's the word you touched on a minute ago?
I think it was embarrassing, you know? Handed my stuff over to my accountant and my peanut butter stain, the lunch bag, Shawna. So you're typically helping out businesses and pharmacies. A lot of them are going to say, we already have an accountant, but you're coming at a, usually first from a bookkeeping side.
Shawnna Weber: Yes. So we don't prepare taxes. We coordinate and collaborate with our client's CPA. But a lot of times we have the benefit because we do work across the medical space of seeing different things that are helpful. Um, there's a lot of deductions that are often missed even with CPAs. Um, just because they're busy and it just depends on the kind of the time of year that things are going on.
But yeah. It's really your responsibility to communicate to the CPA what's happening in your
Mike Koelzer, Host: business. Where are the areas that some pharmacists miss when it comes to deductions and things they should be doing in that regard?
Shawnna Weber: Well, definitely. Um, there's some things that seem simple, but it's really important to take a look at, and that would be your cell phone expense.
Um, some people are paying that on their personal account and it should be coming out of their business and things like business mileage. Um, if your vehicles are. On your assets, um, you should be reimbursing yourself mileage, and then there's the home office expense. A lot of people miss that, or some CPAs aren't as with the times I would say it used to be, oh, you're going to get an audit if you use the home office expense, but it's not, it's not that way anymore.
And it hasn't been for a long time because. I mean, where are you now? Right? Where am I now? We're in our home office and we're working. This isn't
Mike Koelzer, Host: work. This is play.
Shawnna Weber: This is okay. You're right. Yes, but we're going to say it's work for tax purposes. Stick with me, stick with me. So, you know, some people can capture between five and maybe $11,000 and that, and that's a big deal.
And that's just think of that every year, how much money you could save. So you can reimburse yourself for that home office. And those are, you know, things like if you're renting, that's fine. Some of your utilities. Internet. I mean, if you're using some of your garage for storage space, you want to capture that square footage and I'll be happy to share with you like a link to our home office.
Like calculator,
Mike Koelzer, Host: That'd be a good one to go into the show notes. We'll throw that in
Shawnna Weber: there. And that's a big deal. If you think about that over time, that adds up, you know, Vacation also means that they pay for their business through their personal account and not reimbursing themselves like, oh, it's just a little bit, but you really should try to make sure that you reimburse yourself.
And the other thing that isn't a deduction, but we do want to mention here is credit card utilization. So if you have an American Express or some other card with rewards, what we say is try to utilize it in your business and use the points personally. If you do cash back rewards or you use your points to pay for charges that does offset the expense that you're using in your business, but it's not taxable.
If you say, use your American express and then you decide to fly somewhere personally on a flight. I
Mike Koelzer, Host: ain't no genius, but see if I'm smart enough on this, on the car, it really has to be not to and from work, but it would be taking your car to go run to another pharmacy in town, or go down to the state Capitol an hour away for a meeting, things like that.
That's where you can do that. I got
Shawnna Weber: That's straight. Yeah. Yes. And sometimes it's advised, so it's not like from your home to your, to your business, but say you go from your home to Starbucks. So it's the mileage from Starbucks. To your office that you can then count. They
Mike Koelzer, Host: leave home. They go to Starbucks, but they could count the mileage from Starbucks to the store.
Is that because Starbucks is like part of their business
Shawnna Weber: morning? Yes. So they're officially starting business at Starbucks. You can't, you can't count from home to your place of business. You would have to make a stop first. It's this weird rule, but that's just how it is. So you want to stop by Starbucks in the morning and then start your mileage from Starbucks to your, to your pharmacy.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Could I stop for a hot fudge sundae in the morning if
Shawnna Weber: they're open? Absolutely. If that's how you like to start your day. All right.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Now here's another one, the home office. I know there's oddities about that too. Right? There's so much you have to do or so many hours. What is that one?
Shawnna Weber: Hmm. I haven't heard of that one for so many hours.
It's really like a square footage requirement. It has to
Mike Koelzer, Host: be dedicated to space or something like that.
Shawnna Weber: Yes, that's true. I mean, you could be working out of your family room, but then you can't count that whole square footage for the whole entirety because you're using that for personal as well. But in the calculation, Like I said, the garage, whatever dedicated space you have that would be accurate.
You'd want to have a dedicated space for your home office. And the other thing [00:20:00] that I think is important while we're on this topic is meals, right? A meal and entertainment. So entertainment went away. You can't buy tickets for your clients for your favorite football team and, and give that anymore. It's not deductible, but meals are usually 50% unless they're office meals.
So if you have a. You have pizza at your store for your staff. And you're having a staff meeting that's 100% deductible. And so you want to make sure you classify it that way because you don't want your CPA to just see meals and they take 50% of that. You want to classify your hundred percent meals. So anything for your team or your staff, your, um, Christmas party dinner, you can write that off at 100%.
So that's a really good tip. So I'm
Mike Koelzer, Host: out of work at one o'clock someday and. Ask one of my friends. Team members, a technician or something I say, Hey, let's, uh, let's head over to burger king and we'll just shoot the breeze and talk a little bit about how, how things are going at the store for you and things like that.
That would be considered a business meeting and a hundred percent deductible. Correct.
Shawnna Weber: If it's with your team member, you're usually, um, ideally it's going to be at your store where the meeting would take place. But, you know, again, you could drop it into that category because it is with your team member and you're having that meeting.
Now, if you and I meet, it's only 50% to the doctor. So there's a difference there when it's your staff, versus when it is someone outside your organization,
Mike Koelzer, Host: It's only 50% for using it kind of to drum up business.
Shawnna Weber: Correct. But if you're using it for your staff and for team meetings, then it's 100%. So you want to make sure you classify it that way.
That would
Mike Koelzer, Host: be a step down for me having to not be able to go to the deluxe burger king and, and really wine and dine them only the best for my team, Shauna, as
Shawnna Weber: As long as you give them a crown, you know, I think it'll be good. Those
Mike Koelzer, Host: are good points. And I think those are points. Typically your seeing more of, you know, the accountants are usually saying, all right here, what did you have for this?
What did you have for this? And, and, and give that to me. And we'll meet with you for 15 minutes once a year, and, and get this in the thing where you're as a bookkeeper, you're seeing. This stuff. And you can ask those kinds of questions. I imagine like, Hey, here's, here's another, uh, it looks like another, uh, deluxe meeting at burger king or, or even burger king brought into the pharmacy.
Mike, you know, who were you with? What were you doing with this? You can ask those kinds of
Shawnna Weber: questions. So we can help you categorize that properly. That's interesting. And you touched on a point that I think is really important too. And that's, you know, meeting with your CPA. I think a lot of people just think of their CPA and meeting at tax time, but we think it's really important to meet at least twice a year.
And that would be before the end of the year. So you can make any adjustments that you might need to make with your books or any kind of strategy. And then again, it takes time, but oftentimes we see business owners wait until. You know, February or March to hurry up and get their tax stuff in, but they miss out on an opportunity that they could have strategized at the end of the year, putting into their 401k or, you know, again, classifying these things properly when they're not in a rush at the end of the year and forget, what do you
Mike Koelzer, Host: I think some of the riskiest things are that a business does when it comes to.
Well, let's just say taxes. Is it true that moves they make will precipitate an audit
Shawnna Weber: moves. We'll mean, if you have really high expenses, one year over the other and your income doesn't support it. So let's just say you only had a 30% increase in your revenue, but you have like a 200% increase in office supplies.
It's just something out of the ordinary that could trigger an audit risk. Um, luckily the software that the CPA's have. You know, putting your information in for taxes. We'll usually red flag. If there is a risk, um, some people don't realize that if you file your taxes on time, you're actually at a higher audit risk than someone who files on an extension.
So we always recommend, if you can, you know, you can have your taxes prepared, you can pay your tax. Because that's important. You must pay on time, but you can hold it. And just, you know, make sure, I always say to the CPAs that they are more relaxed, usually in May or June, that stress is now gone and they can really, if there's anything else that can be done, there's still a chance to modify that.
But it also lowers your audit risk to file it, um, on extension,
Mike Koelzer, Host: it's a theory on that, of getting in more of an audit risk. If you're
Shawnna Weber: On time, they say they have more time to process the tax returns and more time to look at it. So if you file it. You know, it's less time.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Have you dealt with any clients that have been audited?
Is it a pain in the ass?
Shawnna Weber: Yes. It's actually not too bad. I mean, with these clients, their books are an order. Um, a particular client they're 20 million in revenue and the IRS was saying that, um, they owed a lot more money than they did. They actually needed to [00:25:00] report more revenue, which was true, but what we found when you have an audit is really to have your documents prepared and in order and given to the auditor.
What they asked for people used to this is also kind of old school thinking: put them in a closet, turn up the heat and make them miserable, and then they'll go away. Well, it doesn't work that way. It actually makes it worse. They will dig for everything they possibly can. So it's really having the attitude.
Here's my books. Here's everything. And usually you're you're. If your books are in order, you're going to get a pass. If you made a mistake, okay. Maybe you might owe some taxes, but you're going to have less of an issue if you're really helpful to that auditor, how
Mike Koelzer, Host: specifically are these audits? Do I have to actually come up with that burger king sales receipt from my lunch meat.
Do I really have to come up with
Shawnna Weber: that. If you spent more than $75, probably a lot of times what they'll do is they will go through your records and they'll pick out certain transactions. They'll ask you for that paperwork. Now, if you don't have it, it may not be the end of the world, depending on what it is.
But if you have nine out of the 10 requests and everything looks reasonable and it checks out, they're just doing their check boxes. And they're gonna, you know, be done, but if you can't find any of your paperwork and your numbers really aren't jiving, that's going to be a problem for you. And then there are circumstances where you said, Hey, want to be really aggressive tax wise, like super aggressive.
Well, if you get audited, you're going to pay taxes. They're probably going to find it. So you just have to know what that risk is, you know? Laugh that we, you know, are in the shades of gray, but we're in the light shades of gray for audit risk. You know, we don't really want our clients to be just, you know, at, at the extreme end of aggressive, we want to work within the rules.
And if there's something that they're going to write off that they know is really personal, but they want to run it through their business. They know what
Mike Koelzer, Host: That risk is. Seventy-five did you just pull that out? Is that like an average or is that truly like a limit
Shawnna Weber: That's true. Seventy-five dollars. Um, and under is, you don't really have to have the receipt for.
Oh, well, I'm good. Yeah. So if you, you know, splurged and you spent $20 at burger king, you're going to be okay.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Don't get my team. Any ideas they might be listening to. What customers of yours, clients of yours, have you ever had to fire?
Shawnna Weber: We haven't had to fire very many, luckily because in the beginning we kind of talk about what we're going to agree on.
So we're gonna, we're gonna agree on that. You know, you're going to be responsive and you're gonna help us get the information. Um, there are clients of that sentence, it's just not a personality fit. Like we're just not in line with how they want. Or if they want us to do something that's, you know, not legal.
Um, we may fire them, but usually it's, we have had to let some clients go usually for compliance, if they're just not receptive and responding and we need the information and it's gone on for a long time. I mean, and it has to be extreme. I mean, again, we know our business owners are really busy and we try to do everything we can to get everything done without having to have them super involved.
But if they're just non-compliant, we can't. You know, the bank statements, do the reconciliations and now they want their tax return. And it's just, you know, it's not, it's not a good match. We have let a few clients go because of that.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Just in theory, of course, if you could pick out someone that you hated working with, not talking about illegal or somebody who doesn't respond to you, but what kind of a personality would, would it be a pain to work with?
As a client. I
Shawnna Weber: Think someone who's really micromanaged who micromanages, every move is a little difficult. You know, if we were hanging over your shoulder all of the time and telling you how to fill prescriptions and how to talk to your clients, I mean, after a while, you'd be like, Hey, I got this. Um, we want interaction and we want communication.
But if it's just, if it's a lot of micromanaging that makes it a little difficult. Yeah.
Mike Koelzer, Host: You can't do your job and it almost makes you wonder why they need you then.
Shawnna Weber: You know, admit this. It's like if someone had an accounting degree, that was always harder for us because they're running a business, but they have an accounting degree, but they need to hire because they need to delegate.
But then they would want to micromanage the finances, which was really hard.
Mike Koelzer, Host: We had this guy that used to come into the pharmacy and his dad was a pharmacist. Okay. And this guy would come in and he was the same age as my dad. All right. So. Every time this guy came in and I can count really on one hand the times that my dad said bad things about people, but he always said about this guy that he probably, I think he, somehow he knew that he flunked out of pharmacy school, but every time this guy would come in, he was a chemist.
Not a pharmacist chemist, but actually a chemical [00:30:00] degree. So he would always order his medicines with long generic names. And he would always pronounce some, a little bit different on purpose, you know, like. You know, let's say pseudoephedrine as pharmacists call it, you know, and he would call it, uh, instead of saying, Hey, I need some Sudafed.
He would say, I need some Suda EFA Dream blah, blah, blah. You know, we'd all roll our eyes. Because he was trying to show us stuff. But sometimes those are the worst. The worst customers are the ones that. Maybe I know a little bit, you know, too much.
Shawnna Weber: I know just enough to be dangerous.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Now, wait, you were saying like that could be an accountant that would do that with you.
And then why would they, what were you saying? Why did they need you again? Um,
Shawnna Weber: because they were busy, they were actually a business owner of say another type of business, but they had an accounting degree. So, um, we had a pizza client who was a pizza. We got called in from a CPA to say, can you help this, uh, Pizza business because they need help with their books because they need to get their tax returns filed.
And the person in charge had an accounting degree, but they wanted to micromanage the whole process, which was hard. It's like this will go a lot faster and save you a lot of money. Let us just come in and get it done. And then let's have a chat about how you want this. Organized. Um, it's a lot faster and especially because we were on a deadline, so we want to be efficient.
But, um, I would say some of our favorite customers flip, flip that a little bit are people who are interactive and they're curious, and you know, we really want to help educate our clients. So if there's something they don't know, we don't want people to be embarrassed and we actually want them to ask the questions.
We don't want them to feel like, like, what is, you know, if they ask us, what is this for? Why'd you put it there? We want to educate them on it because I think it helps. Um, the understanding of their finances better, and it helps, you know, have a better client. It's a better client experience.
Mike Koelzer, Host: What places do you see that pharmacists could use?
And I know that you're pleasant. So you're going to say here's where they could maybe improve, but I'm going to say, what are the ways we screw up?
Shawnna Weber: I would say it's with employees, that's one of the biggest costs. And when you have a lot of turnover, it's very costly and there are things, again, you know, you're the pharmacist, you're running this business and now you have to manage people or maybe you hire a manager, but you really want to make sure that you're engaging employees because employee turnover can be quite costly and even simple things.
Again, people are like, oh, do I really have to do this? The answer is, yes, you really want to make sure that your employees buy into your mission and your culture of your company and that they're treating your customers the way you want them to be treated because you will lose business if your employees are not nice to your customers and.
You'll lose people for better opportunities if you're not treating them right. If they can go get a job at, you know, $15 an hour, somewhere else, and your environment isn't that great. You're going to have turnover and then you have to train someone else. And that costs a lot of money. So I would even say, okay, if, if you're not that great at employee engagement, like that's not your thing.
You don't want to do it. Is there someone in your business, another employee that you can then pay a little bit more money and maybe they have fun Fridays or you bring in burgers. It's Friday
Mike Koelzer, Host: only the cheap ass is do I take them to burger king?
Shawnna Weber: So I think that some of those things are important because it really, um, engages your employees with you.
It gives them, you know, a fun work environment because they're with you, you know, many hours of the day, they're away from their family. They're choosing to be at your place of business, but they can also choose to go elsewhere. So you always want to keep that in mind that it doesn't take a lot to engage your employees, even having fun.
You know, there's a lot of engagement, um, activities online and even doing something like that on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, maybe you're doing fun. T-shirts um, you know, once a quarter. Something like that. Maybe someone does a design for something that ties people in with your particular store and your mission and vision so that you don't have a lot of turnover because that is expensive.
I
Mike Koelzer, Host: got to tell you though, my daughter, she came to me and she said, um, she said, dad, this is the same daughter I talked about from the last podcast. If anybody's interested, she has a lot of ideas for me. I agree with mine, but I think she would pick the opposite. Like I tell my wife, I say, uh, you know, if we wanted this daughter to do something, we just choose the opposite and then she'll do it.
She doesn't fall for it that we really believe in the opposite, you know? So. She said, dad, what do you need to do at work? You need to have fun things. She says, we have weekly meetings at our juice bar place where she worked in the summer, a vegan juice bar. We have weekly meetings and I say, oh, that's what I say, that's good.
That's good. Grace. And I see, I always use her name, but. That's all right. She doesn't care. I say, that's good, grace. I said, yeah, weekly. And she said, yeah, it really involves the employees. It gets some real interest in things like that. I said, oh, I said, how do you like that? She said, [00:35:00] I hate it. I'm quitting next week.
Oh
Shawnna Weber: no.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Here's what I think pharmacists have, what I like is because I'm within. Feed of these people all day, you know, and it's not terribly stressed, we're not so busy that we're stressed, but I think if you were not next to them or you had a lot more stress, you'd have to have ways to sometimes say, look, life, isn't all this stressful, you know, with the, you know, the t-shirts and things like that, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, if you think
Shawnna Weber: About it, you're really motivated by your passion for your business, right? And that's what keeps you going and keeps you going to work every day. You have this responsibility and you know, you're passionate about it and your employees are, you know, typically passionate about what they do.
But again, they can leave at any time. And so. Um, you know, really helping them in that environment is just having fun and you don't know what's going on at home. People right now are super stressed with things going on. So if they can have a place that they feel that they're really comfortable and they connect with you and they have passion for your, you know, your customers, they're going to be better employees because they're happy.
Mike Koelzer, Host: I know where you're going with that. And the boss, I think you were going a little bit. The boss, the owner have more of a natural passion for the business, right? Because they own it. And my employees, I think, have a passion for the customers. I don't think they have much passion for the business. And I'm only saying that from history of, from different employees who have left over the last 30 years and stuff, you know, the passion for the customers is not so much for the business, but they do a damn good job when they're passionate about the customers.
It's just, they don't have that deep passion for the business. And that's where you can pull in some of that fun and, um, comradery and things like that. And frankly, as the owner, You nailed it. I don't really need that. I'm not a rock or an island, but I've got the joy and the thoughts of the business game in my head, which they don't really have.
Shawnna Weber: Right. Exactly. And if you have an environment where there's a lot of drama, you know, that's a problem. I mean, you want people to want to show up for work because again, they're, they like the work environment. They like your customers. And even simple things like if you're running a retail pharmacy and your customers are coming in and they're asking for something specific and you don't have it, you know, is that, is that employee going to mention that to you?
Like. They're looking for them. I'm just going to make it up. I don't know. You have, I'm sure you have this on your salad shelves, but ACE bandages or something. Um, if multiple customers ask for something and your employee doesn't feel like they're engaged with you, where are they gonna tell you? And then you're missing revenue.
So again, it's like this, this whole cycle of, you know, Employees who are happy, they perform better. They're happier in their personal life. They're happier at their place of employment and less likely to leave. They've
Mike Koelzer, Host: talked about this or at least alluded to this, but in the last year, we've downsized from about 37 employees down to about 20 and the 17 that we lost.
I think they were all professional Trump.
Shawnna Weber: It makes a difference. I mean,
Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm actually waiting for like to receive tickets to some like some drama thing and go there and see all the former employees, you know, individually, they were all good, but that, that mix that they had, and I wasn't around as much I had from 2015 through 19 or so I wasn't around as much.
And boy does it, uh, It just gets thick. It does, but I think that's human nature. I think that's human nature. I mean, you're
Shawnna Weber: always going to deal with some kind of drama typically, but the least amount, the better. And when people, again, feel like they can come to work and have, uh, you know, mostly drama-free workplaces, they are less likely to call in sick.
I mean, some people are going to call in sick cause they just don't want to deal with Susie today, you know, because Susie doesn't say hello and she has this frown on her face and you know, I'm going to call in sick. I'm not dealing with Susie today. So I think that that makes a difference. There
Mike Koelzer, Host: was either drama or drama brewing, and both of those are about the same, you know, about the same pain, pain level for me.
Shawnna Weber: And you don't want your customers to experience that. I mean, we've all gone someplace where there's drama with employees or something going on where you just don't feel like you, you know, get that feel-good feeling when you go into those places.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Typically, um, they fight past it, but sometimes no, sometimes it goes over and people can tell, you [00:40:00] know, customers can tell it's just too small of a thing.
Um, you know, not too, you
Shawnna Weber: touched on one thing that I, I wanted to mention on an additional tax tip is you said that, um, your daughter, grace, which I also have a daughter, grace, that your daughter, grace, I do 17.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh, congratulations. What's your middle
Shawnna Weber: name? Andrea.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Andrea. That's pretty. That's
Shawnna Weber: pretty. Thank you.
How about yours?
Mike Koelzer, Host: Ours is, um, Elizabeth.
Shawnna Weber: Oh, well, a tax tip is so she, you said she's six out of 10. So that means you probably have younger children under 19 years old. My
Mike Koelzer, Host: youngest just turned.
Shawnna Weber: So a tax tip is if you have children and your children are doing some work in your business, one of the tax strategies is to pay your children for their work.
Um, and usually they are at a different tax rate than you are, and there are certain limits. And again, you would want to work with your CPA on this, so that you can pay your child where they wouldn't have to file a tax return. And then there is a limit that your children would have to file a tax return for the work that they're performing.
But again, their, um, effective rate for the taxes are going to be less than yours. So instead of paying yourself, you know, your wage, and then you're paying them personally, maybe for work that they're doing, you would want to pay them out of the business. If you're
Mike Koelzer, Host: going to pay them an allowance or something like that or whatever they then could.
Well, let's see. I mean, they deserve to make the money they make, but the money you save. I mean, you can't pay him more than the going rate though. Kenya.
Shawnna Weber: No, you want to pay him for the work performed. So some of our clients, um, their children come and they help do the shredding or they help clean up and some people would have just paid them out of their pockets.
You know, here's a hundred dollars out of their personal funds, but you actually want to run it through payroll because then it's a deduction for you and it helps you. Tax-wise. To pay them through your business. So if they're doing work in your pharmacy, you would want to go ahead and pay your children as a wage.
How long have you been doing this? I have been doing this for more than 20 years. Wow.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Is this great? And this is just going, or do you have. Another step that you want to do, that would feel different or better. I'm not trying to take you away from something that's perfect for you, but do you have any other level you're trying to do or a different business?
Bring on something else or whatever
Shawnna Weber: we are looking at, um, implementing profit first strategies, um, as a service, as a consulting service, I
Mike Koelzer, Host: saw that. I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah. I saw that you got certified in that and so on. And I looked up the website. What is that? So
Shawnna Weber: profit versus essentially like a cash flow management system.
So if you think of your grandma's envelope system, where she would put, you know, uh, Money to certain things and spend accordingly it's the same kind of thing in a business. Because a lot of times business owners, they're looking at their bank accounts. We can budget all day long, but they're really not looking at that budget.
They're looking at the bank account. So what we do is we set up multiple bank accounts and just move the money into those say envelopes so that they only spend what's in the envelope instead of, you know, just kinda. A free for all when they see the money in their account. Well, first of all,
Mike Koelzer, Host: a lot of pharmacists don't budget.
Cause they it's the seat of their pants kind of thing. They'd been there so long. Yeah.
Shawnna Weber: It's your, you know, pharmacies are a little more challenging because you do have the DIR fees and when those things are coming out, right. I mean, that's a challenge. But you could have, you know, where you're paying your supplier twice a month and you want to just tuck that money away into an account.
So you know that it's there when you go to pay it, or you're going to bring on some new employees and you want to save for that. So you may want to tuck that money away as you're receiving money. So, you know, profit first can be utilized in a lot of different ways.
Mike Koelzer, Host: And a lot of times Texas jumped up on people and things like that.
So this is a way to, I don't know, is it kind of a way to reign in the, the. The free nature of an entrepreneur, or is that too rough on the, on the entrepreneurial? Well,
Shawnna Weber: It's really there's, um, Parkinson's law and really, it's kind of, if I give you two weeks to do a project, it'll take you two weeks. And if I give you eight weeks to do the same project, it'll take you eight weeks.
So it's the same with the money in your bank account, right? If I give you 2000 for advertising, you're going to make that work. And if I give you 10,000, you're going to spend it all. So it's really kind of doing those allocations. So yeah, saving for taxes, but you're also kind of looking at your costs and saying, okay, I'm going to spend $10,000 on advertising and I'm going to set that aside.
Um, or it's 2000, whatever the number is. And that way, you know, when [00:45:00] you're looking at your account, if you have a hundred thousand in there and now you're going to do advertising and someone gives you a quote of 20,000 and you're like, okay, yeah, I'll do 20,000. When you really could have maybe negotiated or looked at other opportunities and spent 10,000.
So it really kind of drives you to do that. Kind of negotiating for the amount of money you have in your budget instead of the money you have in your bank
Mike Koelzer, Host: account, let's say in theory, you know, all your bills are paid. You know, the wholesaler's not coming due for another week and you've got a hundred thousand dollars sitting there and it happens that the marketing radio guy comes in or something you might just quickly say, sure, I'll do it.
Not, not realizing that some of that money was meant for a project four weeks from now, but you know, Well, it could be your process. Yeah.
Shawnna Weber: I mean, money. It could be money back to you. So if you had it budgeted and you put it in another bank account and you know that that's what you're going to spend on advertising.
You're more likely to spend that amount of money versus again, the free for all that's in your account. That's really, you know, your profit or maybe the buddy to bring on a new employee or to buy additional. Um, items for your, for your store.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. I like that notion because yeah, it's true. You can, you can really do well.
Like you had mentioned between, let's say a hundred thousand and 10,000 and advertising. If you do the 10, maybe. 10% of the cause might get you 50% of what a hundred thousand would have got you or something like that, you know, just at 10. So they had that. That's true,
Shawnna Weber: right? If you, maybe you're going to do some type of remodel and you want to kind of have a budget, you're probably going to get three quotes and credit, try to stick within, in your mind what you think the budget is instead of going with the first person who comes in and quotes you because.
Again, I think we find this a lot with medical practices and pharmacies too, that sometimes people are going to overcoat you because of your industry. So they're going to say, oh, you're a doctor, you're a pharmacist. And then they're going to up their prices because they think, you know, you have an open-ended bank account.
And so you want to avoid that as well. So kind of setting a budget aside, getting multiple quotes, you know, that money goes back into your pocket. Whatever's left over. And you're not going to spend more than what you originally planned on, you know, with your allocation.
Mike Koelzer, Host: W what's like the product that you walked out of in training for that, is it certain, um, literature or what
Shawnna Weber: There's literature, there's also calculators so that you can do what they call assessments so that I can see how your cash flow is going.
And when we, they have. Targeted percentages. So if I say you need to save 30% for taxes, you know, it's easy for me to tell you what that amount is going to be.
Mike Koelzer, Host: What are the kinds of things you have up your sleeve? Anything else like that? And we
Shawnna Weber: really try to work on education. So in California, we have harassment training that needs to be completed if you have five employees or more.
Um, and so. Really working with our clients to educate them on making sure that they're in compliance. So if there's ever any issues down the road, that they can show that they have done the training, um, and also their employees have completed it as well.
Mike Koelzer, Host: It almost sounds like your business. It's like you're a bookkeeper If it is that, can I call it a bookkeeper or is that derogatory? You know, nowadays, like you can't call a garbage, a garbage man has to be a sanitation Smashburger or something like that. I think I'm still called a pharmacist. I'm not sure it might be derogatory for all the other pharmacists, knowing that I'm called a pharmacist.
My wife, we get two ladies that come to our house. Every two weeks for a couple hours and that's reasonable, you know, they get stuff done. I always get on Margaret though, because. She always cleans the house spotless for these ladies that are coming to clean. I'm like, what are you doing? She says, well, they're not picking up ladies.
You know, they do the deeper stuff. Does that make any sense to you?
Shawnna Weber: I'd say it's kind of like the embarrassing books, right? It's like all of us ladies, we want to pick up our house before the house cleaners get there. So they don't really know what we had going on. You know, it's like,
Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, then here's, here's the rub then Shawna, we can't call them cleaning ladies.
That's derogatory. Once you think they'd be called cleaning, like
Shawnna Weber: yeah. I think that makes sense. That's what they do, right? That's their job. Their jobs are clean. I keep your books. I keep them. I'm a bookkeeper.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. All right. So I'm at a point in time. It sounds to me what I'm picking up from you. And I, I ain't know Sherlock Holmes, but I think I'm picking up from you that you're keeping track of more than books that You're almost like.
a babysitter for us pharmacists, right? You're talking about the harassment training you know, maybe fraud training, this and that and telling us, we should [00:50:00] look at our contracts here and, and see if you know, so-and-so's charging us too much and that you're a babysitter for us.
Shawnna Weber: Well, you know, I like to say an accountability coach.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh,
see, there you go again.
Now you're going to tell me I can't call them cleaning ladies.
Shawnna Weber: Funny. Okay. We're a babysitter. No, I'm just
Mike Koelzer, Host: accountability coach across the board for different stuff that they're letting slip through the
Shawnna Weber: cracks. Right. We're helping you accomplish your goals that you want. Right.
We're just making sure that you're doing what you set out to do, but you know, I, I would like your audience to be aware that there are different levels of bookkeepers. So there are some bookkeepers. Transactional. They're just maybe that you hire and they're a hundred dollars a month, then they're just going to do the transactions and never ask you any questions.
And then there's accountants that can also be CPA. So I think it's, it gets really confusing on what the titles are. So I would say if you're talking to someone, the best thing to do is ask what their services are to help if that's, if that is in line with what you're looking to do.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Now Shawna, how far do you go out?
Are you whatever license in other states or are you just California?
Shawnna Weber: We are virtual, but we like to stay in, um, California because we know a lot about the employment laws. We know a lot about taxes. We do have clients with other pharmacies and other areas. So in. And so we do help those clients as well.
But, um, we have a lot of, again, connections with other bookkeepers. So if someone were looking for someone in their particular state, we would be happy to connect. Um, any of your listeners, if they are looking for someone, with someone that we know as a trusted
Mike Koelzer, Host: advisor, I was just going to say, you made a lot of pharmacists sad.
We got them all excited. And then. They can't use you, but you can help them out. You can help them find someone that can do similar things because of your connections.
Shawnna Weber: Correct. And we can help them with their bookkeeping. I would say when it comes to more of an employee or employee, certain employee laws or payroll with employees, that's where it gets a little bit tricky for us because we are, we understand California really well.
So, um, again, if someone was looking for a resource, we would be happy to connect them with someone. That does handle their state, or if they said, Hey, we have the payroll lockdown. We just need someone to come in and take a look at our books and advise us, or handle the bookkeeping tasks we can do.
Mike Koelzer, Host: What's the best part of the week?
You look forward to, I have to
Shawnna Weber: Say we scheduled our employee weekly meetings on Monday because sometimes Mondays can be a little, you know, you're kind of starting out of the gate. You have all these plans for what's going to happen near in the week. And sometimes things get a little derailed, especially in our business.
If someone gets a notice or, you know, they say, Hey, we need this. The bank is asking for this and we want to be on top of that. So Mondays can be a little bit tricky because they have all these plans and sometimes they get a little derailed. So we scheduled our weekly. Um, staff meetings for Monday afternoon.
And that's really something that I always look forward to because we do a little icebreaker. We share our wins. We talk about what's going to happen during the week and any issues that people are having or anything, any ideas they want to bounce off of each other. And that's just been really a highlight of the whole week.
Like it just gets me past that Monday. That's nice.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Do you have, how do I put this? RefreshMints.
Shawnna Weber: We do not, but you know, well, it's two o'clock in the afternoon and you know, I'm hoping that they
Mike Koelzer, Host: would want him to go back and be productive.
Shawnna Weber: I kind of do. I kind of do, but you know, maybe we'll schedule it to a later time so that we can do a four
Mike Koelzer, Host: o'clock. How long has the meeting been? Yeah, and they work till five.
Shawnna Weber: They actually have flexible
Mike Koelzer, Host: schedules. All right. So tell them to be flexible and, and, and be flexible that three, then you, and then you have a little bit of a she's in wine or
Shawnna Weber: whatever. I like that actually. And I think they would like that too.
Mike Koelzer, Host: If that's already your favorite time of, see, I, I just flip flop like this, if you already enjoy.
You don't need it, then have your fun and tell them to get back to work.
Shawnna Weber: Maybe they would enjoy it though, right? Like I have to be open-minded to maybe they would like a little bit of wine and cheese during that hour,
Mike Koelzer, Host: You know, what the best way to do and then to keep them happy still, but also productive, bringing some Whoppers.
Shawnna Weber: Oh yes. I, you know, I should have learned that from our talk today that burger
Mike Koelzer, Host: king can do wonders.
Shawnna Weber: I'm going to door dash, then burger king.
Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm too cheap for that. I had never done door dash or anything. It's gotta be, I mean, my time is worth something, but I'm just too cheap to think that I would have someone to go pick up my Whoppers for me.
Shawnna Weber: We are virtual. So we actually have, um, employees in Northern California and Southern California because we have clients all throughout California. Your
Mike Koelzer, Host: Monday, meaning virtual. Yes. Ah. Then just put a flask in your coat pocket there and turn around occasionally to say that you have to [00:55:00] do something with the microphone or something like that.
And then take some swigs. Yeah.
Shawnna Weber: Yeah, I could do that. It would definitely be happy hour.
Mike Koelzer, Host: If someone said to you right now, you have to take a year off of what you're doing, but it's not a free year. You don't get to go traveling and things like that. You still have to work, you know, nine to five, doing something now that something can be a hobby or whatever, but you've got to be doing something through the week.
What do you think that might be?
Shawnna Weber: I could do anything during the week nine to five. I have a passion to, um, help children who maybe wouldn't have other opportunities. So I would want to be, I wouldn't want to be like a teacher, but I would want to be working in the classroom, maybe doing storytelling or craft time, something like that.
So just really, um, you know, doing some things with, with children.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Wait a minute, aren't you a ballroom dancer?
Shawnna Weber: I have taken some ballroom dancing classes. Yeah.
Mike Koelzer, Host: You still do that?
Shawnna Weber: I would love to have more time to do that. Yes.
Mike Koelzer, Host: But you still do it when you can do it? Occasionally? I
Shawnna Weber: do. And my daughter as well.
So that was kind of. But
Mike Koelzer, Host: you'd like to be altruistic and read things instead of doing your ballroom dancing. Well, I wonder if I
Shawnna Weber: can do both. You could do both. Maybe I could teach ballroom dancing to
Mike Koelzer, Host: children. I mean, it's not like you're doing Charleston. I mean, you might get dizzy with your eye and the book at the same time, but it's not like you're bouncing up and down.
Shawnna Weber: Well, see, I could read books about ballroom dancing and then I could, you know, we could have a little activity after that would be a win-win. Yeah, that would
Mike Koelzer, Host: sound, uh, that sounded interesting. Well, Shauna, what a pleasure meeting you and thank you for, uh, hanging out. This was fun.
Shawnna Weber: No. And thank you for dealing with my microphone issues.
Sorry.
Mike Koelzer, Host: Don't tell the audience. I already told them what you did during your microphone breaks
Shawnna Weber: in the flash. No. Thank you so much for having me on the show today. Really appreciate it. I've been listening to your podcast and you provide such valuable information for your audience, just on many different levels.
So thank
Mike Koelzer, Host: you. It's an honor. And you have a podcast also. I actually have seen some of my guests on your show. And what is the name of your show?
Shawnna Weber: It's called the basis of finance. We really wanted to have a show that isn't just about bookkeeping, but it's about other aspects of business that are important, like self care.
So Dr. Jessica Louie was a guest on the show and she talks about burnout, which is really important. She didn't
Mike Koelzer, Host: bring me up at all. Did she?
Shawnna Weber: She was not eminent. I'm going to have to go back and ask you about
you,
Mike Koelzer, Host: then. It's a good thing that she did. Take care. Thank you. Thanks. Bye-bye.
