Growing a CBD startup | Esan Forde, PharmD

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: You're listening to the business of pharmacy podcast with me, your host, Mike, ER,

Well, hello, Dr. Ford. Thanks for joining us. 

[00:00:29] Esan Forde, PharmD: Hi, thanks for having me. 

[00:00:31] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, so, you know. I'm sure a lot of people know who you are, but for the one or two out there that might not give us, give us a little rundown of, if you know, who you are and kind of what's going on in your life. And maybe what's hot right now for you.

[00:00:51] Esan Forde, PharmD: All right. Um, as I mentioned, my name's Dr. Isan Ford. Um, a little background. I have a master's degree in clinical physi. From the University of Florida. And I have my pharm D doctor of pharmacy from, uh, university of Southern California in Los Angeles. I've been a practicing pharmacist for about 15 years now.

Time flies, my goodness. Oh yeah. And, um, , I'm also personally licensed in about 17 state boards of pharmacy and also have an additional license as a consultant pharmacist in Florida. Um, so it's like 18 D. Pharmacist licenses across the country. Wow. Um, currently I specialize in high risk sterile compounding as a compounding pharmacist.

I am, uh, the director of pharmacy at a FDA registered, uh, GMP regulated pharmaceutical manufacturer slash outsource 5 0 3 B outsourcing facility. And, um, you know, we make, uh, sterile, injectables and products and non sterile medications for hospitals clinics, you know, doctor's offices and patients nationwide.

That's what I do, uh, you know, for a couple years now. Yeah. That's my specialty in pharmacy. Um, right now. I'm actually my, a big bit of a passion now is, uh, another business that venture I got into with a couple partners of ours. Um, I'm a partner of a hemp farm and, um, a national distribution manager at Wright coast agriculture.

And, uh, our hem farm is based in Vermont. and, um, our distribution manufacturing facility is based in Maine and this very exciting time to be in this industry of hemp and CBD of the, the worlds are colliding between patient care doctors and, and alternative treatment options. Um, we are a certified clean green farm.

that provides, you know, high quality hemp and CBD products, you know, full quality testing and certificates of analysis provided with all of our products. Um, and you know, we sell, you know, full spectrum, isolated CBD products. We all talk more about, um, whether it be, you know, at wholesale or retail, um, different products, the options do ocean forms and also, you know, agricultural equipment and consulting that kind of goes into the industry as a whole.

Yeah. Right. So. Go ahead. 

[00:03:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, Dr. Ford tells all, so I'm looking at this and the part that gives me a headache is 17 states that you're licensed.

Why did that come about and how does that happen then? 

[00:03:27] Esan Forde, PharmD: A very interesting question. Um, some people may know what if you have to, if this pharmacy or facility wants to ship medications into that state, they have to be the pharmacy. And the business has to be licensed in that state and many boards of pharmacy are required to have a designated.

State licensed pharmacists in charge of on record with that application or for that, for that on for quality control purposes on record. So in order for company A to ship into California, they have to have a California licensed pharmacy employed with them on record as the, um, authority, um, responsible, uh, practitioner on that facility.

So because of that, I was given the opportunity to where, where my employer was. We were licensed in many states and therefore. You know, someone has to take these state boards of farms or licenses, and someone has to be that. You know, licensed personnel in Natalie in that state. So that's how it kind of came about.

Um, so I mean, it, it is, and, and I noticed a lot, it's actually a business model for a lot of people. Um, you know, whether it be mail order facilities have to do the same thing, you know, manufacturing facilities, pharmacies that ship outta state. So it's becoming a bigger, bigger, bigger thing in this industry.

For obviously the facility to be licensed there and multiple different licenses, whether it be a wholesale license manufacturer's license, nonresident, pharmacy license, as well as. A pharmacist license that's in that state. So, you know, some people actually make a lot of good living, just getting licenses and pretty much renting out their licenses.

But obviously it's a lot of liability that your license is on the line for that state in case things are not done properly. Uh, 

[00:05:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, right. So, I'm familiar with, you know, the pharmacies being licensed and yeah, I guess, uh, I guess they just want to, they, you know, they, for whatever, you know, I'm not for better, for worse.

They keep adding, you know, well, okay, now you need this registered with the pharmacist and so on. Well, right. That's um, how, how tough is that to keep up with 17 states being 

[00:05:23] Esan Forde, PharmD: licensed in, you know, they do have, uh, you know, educational platforms where you kind of, uh, Consider all your see, um, learning materials in one website, like say versus pharmacist letter or, you know, uh, CE, um, pharmacist, e.com, things like that, um, where they kind of keep all, they keep track of all the different laws that may change.

So you need, you may need, um, Control substance law or another update with their, their, uh, you know, HIV, um, laws in that state or different, you know, different tweaks that, so these particular platforms you kind of do all your S um, keeps track of it all. And it's really up to you to kind of renew 'em and keep on top of your 30 hours every two years.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's just, you know, if you, like, for instance, additional licenses are like, um, consultant pharmacist, license that takes a little step, a little step further. You need additional live CE courses and things like that. But, you know, overall. It's a little tough to manage, but you know, he's still learning.

And so he is constantly learning. Once you get outta school as well, did you have to test in all of those states? Yes. Yes. So, yeah. So every state you get your additional license, you have to take the law exam in that state. So it's during a three hour exam, a law exam, you take the M PJ E for that state.

And then you basically through a licensed transfer, uh, reciprocity process or the national boards of pharmacy, you. Utilize your basis state to transfer your license over to that state. So you don't have to take the national board exam again. You just have to take that state law exam, the state law one, the state law.

So every state has little, you know, idiosyncrasies, how, how they manage different parts. Well, some states may be starting, maybe controlling how they do nursing homes or. Um, certain idiosyncrasies about their laws or state laws, but obviously the federal laws are the same. So, um, yeah. Yeah. That's you have to get kinda tough.

That's a ton 

[00:07:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: of work. So Dr. Ford you're so, so you're a young guy growing up and, and. Which, which, which is the answer, did you have, did you have dreams of all this stuff you're doing and say, okay, I need this degree and this degree and this degree to do what I wanna do, or was it, or was it that you started and said, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a pharmacy degree and I'm gonna just probably work in one spot.

And then all of a sudden, this blows up with the, you know, the, the different things that you're in, what what's what's 

[00:07:43] Esan Forde, PharmD: first on that. Well, uh, I'm a healthcare practitioner first and foremost, loving. I love helping patients. Patient care is my, was my ultimate, you know, goal to, to, to learn to master that knowledge of medications and drug therapy management.

But I also had a, you know, a passion for entrepreneurship, uh, business and, uh, thinking outside the box, how do you just utilize your. Your degree kind of takes things to the next level, um, and expands on that knowledge in helping and expanding and growing business. And so it 

[00:08:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: wasn't just like, and so it was a kind, it wasn't, like you said, what's what degree is gonna be best to be the entrepreneur, but it was a love of helping and health along with that, that kind of sent you in these directions.

[00:08:30] Esan Forde, PharmD: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. You know, the more you learn, the more you wanna help educate and you know, the more you learn, the more you wanna build and expand. And, and with that becomes out out of that naturally becomes product and services, you know, When you have a knowledge base and you end up having bus, you end up building a business model out of outta your knowledge, whether it be consulting, um, whether it be a new product you just formulated or came up with, you know, things of nature kind of comes organically.

And it doesn't matter what you do with it at that point to either create a business out of it, or create a consulting company out of it, which I did many times. Um, and kind of capitalize on that as well. 

[00:09:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: You know, I know you've got some skincare products. Uh, you've got some, 

[00:09:11] Esan Forde, PharmD: some actual, you know, some actual.

[00:09:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: When, when was the first time that you, um, that you took your knowledge and you said consulting and things like that, but when was the first time you took your knowledge and put a, and put a product, you know, a product behind it? 

[00:09:26] Esan Forde, PharmD: Very interesting point. Um, so it came to a point where, um, Just me just putting my name out there, networking within, you know, like-minded individuals, um, or you know, different port, you know, online portals.

Um, people ask me questions from your background and then ask you, oh, can you do this? Can you do that? Do you know about this? And I could answer the questions. Yes. So instead of me just referring people to how to do it, I said, well, why don't I do it for them and charge 'em for this service, because. You know, a knowledge based business and industry and, uh, you know, why not get paid for this knowledge?

You know? And, and so I figured, you know, I was never really a salesperson per se, but I was more like a creator. Yeah. So, um, when it comes to my skincare line, um, I was initially trying to do, um, Cosmetic product development for custom contract manufacturing for dermatologists and others that want to have their own brand.

But that takes a bit of a salesman to get out there and sell that to people, you know? Yeah. Right. Um, but so I, I, you know, once I kind of got selling, but part I'm tired of the selling and the chasing, I said, why don't I just do it myself? , you know? Yeah. Right. Why don't I do it myself? You know, make it a little more personal, stick my name on it.

Dr. Ford skin. You know, the know was more like a, a love and passion behind it, you know, kind of do it from scratch, from the, be the packaging, the source, the containers, the, the trademarking, and just, you know, formulations. I kind of love it in general. So, and, um, you know, I kind of did that outside of my, obviously my, my full-time employment.

It was more like a love and passion for growing a business and entrepreneurship, you know, making a product. And so now I have a product and, um, it, and actually it's funny that. That. So I wasn't trying to have my own product at first and, but I kind of pushed myself into it because then I don't wanna chase people to make it for them.

So I said, why do it myself? But now I have this. but people still ask, oh, can you do it for me? you know, but now have something to show . 

[00:11:29] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Now you're, now, now they, now they've seen the, uh, they've seen the results and now they, now they've pushed in that position even more. Right. Exactly. 

[00:11:37] Esan Forde, PharmD: But that's neat.

[00:11:38] Mike Koelzer, Host: So before we get into the C B D stuff in that, yeah. Um, are there others? Are there other products that you saw? So I assume that the skincare was the first one. And then there any, did any other like entrepreneurial product based things happen before your, your you're joining with the farms and 

[00:11:57] Esan Forde, PharmD: stuff?

No. No. That was the first little touch into me, kind of getting into my own contract manufacturing and developing problem was my skincare, um, with the CBD. Hemp farm, um, businesses. Now that's, you know, a group effort now and we're developing those products for, um, for the public and for patients. That's, and that's a very interesting topic because, and that came about kind of organically as, as well.

Um, you know, and obviously as pharmacists, we come to provide consultation to patients and doctors every day in different scenarios and patients, whether it be using, you know, seizure medication or pain medications, or any, anything for their ailments, anxiety, we always look for alternative health. You know, you know, organic herbal products and they were always asking about CBD and the products, or whether it be medical marijuana as well.

So I kind of would kind of want, that's something you don't teach in school, you know, whether it be the physicians, nurses, and, and pharma, they don't teach this kind of stuff in school. So you kind of, I was kind of, kind of, kind of educate myself about this topic and learn more about it to help me because there are a lot of drug interactions, you know, um, people are, people are using it, so you have to kinda educate yourself.

What, what 

[00:13:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: year was that? That, that this, that these questions seemed to start popping up more to 

[00:13:11] Esan Forde, PharmD: you? It's been about maybe about a year now. It's been about a year now, only about 

[00:13:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: a year since you started talking even a 

[00:13:18] Esan Forde, PharmD: a lot about it. Exactly. Exactly. I first dabble into the medical marijuana clinic space first and then with my partner.

And then we kind of got into, you know, dura hemp farms and, you know, my partners and I were, my partners were doing this for many years and it was kind, they. Yeah, they were doing this for many years in their recreational states in Maine and Vermont. And so I was, you know, we started different businesses before with these, uh, medical marijuana clinics.

They kind of organically brought me in to kind of help them transition into the pharmaceutical independent retail space commercialization of the products. Cause it's more of like hemp products and CB products traditionally have been, you know, sold in. You know, vape shops, smoke shops, shops not necessarily big, you know, storefronts, you see everywhere, like CVS and walkers are trying to stack it.

So, you know, that was the kind of merging of the two worlds from, I. 

[00:14:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: So the, the, the states Vermont Maine that had the recreational, I assume for a while now, they, they kind of started to get into it. And then I imagine states like in Michigan here, once states start to talk about all the medical reasoning.

And now for example, in Michigan we're even recreational, then people say, well, this is, we're able to talk about this now, even, and, and bring it up in conversation. It's 

[00:14:37] Esan Forde, PharmD: not like a tab. Exactly. So when the, when the federal government legalized CBD products nationwide and all 50 states that along as CBD products, so full spectrum products are below 0.3% of THC, which I could talk more about, um, made it, made it legal than even more people were asking about it because it's more available online.

Now you see online sales. Different stores are popping up with it now. So now even more people are asking about it, but it's, it's a very, I'd like to get more into that, cuz it's a very, still unregulated WWA west industry. So, that's why it's so many healthcare professionals to this day, still unable to answer those questions or where to find reliable sources.

Right? So that's, so this is where my partners and I are. We teamed up and said, well, you know, let's get this into, you know, let's open up the, the, the, the stigma behind this. So help educate patients and consumers about what's quality product versus not quality products. Cause it is, we're still trying to help patients with their ailments and let's get this into, um, name.

Stores independence, pharmacy stores, you don't traditionally see these products. Um, and then there's really no big, uh, inroad to that at the moment. And, you know, and, and so now this industry's kind of opening up, so, you know, me, and when did, 

[00:15:57] Mike Koelzer, Host: when did DVD become, um, was that like one fell SWOOP that had become legal everywhere?

Was that like a, 

[00:16:03] Esan Forde, PharmD: uh, six months ago or something or, yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. The federal government passed that law. No, I had the date on that, um, um, sure. The farm bill. So that would make it legal in all 50 states that had that below that 0.3% limit THC limit. Yeah. Cause remember anything above that either if you're in a medical marijuana state, you need a medical marijuana card to get your higher th level.

Otherwise you're in a recreational state where you don't need that card. Um, but as far as if it's below that limit, unless the state has more stringent law than the federal government, like for instance, Ohio, Ohio, Outlaw CBD product sales IR, regardless of what the state says, I mean, the federal government says it's legal.

So, the state can override the federal government. If they have moisture in their law. 

[00:16:48] Mike Koelzer, Host: Gotcha. So you come out and, and, and now you've got this product for the last 30 years where all the, all the, the grandmas and people are, are thinking, you know, hippies, you know, Woodstock, and now, now CBD is here and you guys are trying to put the, the white coat, look on it for our, uh, uh, you know, the, the medical side and, and from distinguish.

People and, and caregivers and, and medical. And you're trying to get that, get that image to come along with it because it's such a wild west industry. 

[00:17:21] Esan Forde, PharmD: Yes. And, and we wanna break down the stigma, you know, it, that there, remember now there are, there is one, you know, the federal government's kind of been, um, both sides of the fence here.

You know, there is one FDA approved, you know, product based on CBD oil from the plant source, um, called epi dialects for pediatric seizures. So, okay. There is obviously proof of the medical benefit of CBD oil use with, you know, real medical use cases and pediatric seizures, FDA approved products. And for many years there's been a S.

Um, marijuana product that's been used at the approved wall as well for Marinol called Marinol, right. Used for, you know, cancer patients, uh, but CCIA, you know, appetites issues. So help put on some weight. So, so it, it, it is, and, you know, the federal government has their own test facilities where they've been.

You know, issuing patients with these medical marijuana, um, medicines for their own, you know, clinics. So, you know, don't get it twisted. You know, this has been very used in the medical community for many years, but just has been a big stigma as far as education now. So that's what we wanna kind of bring out the education to it all and tell patients so patients that, you know, 10 products can be.

And CBD products are safe and effective. Um, and not all these products that we're talking about. If it's below that 0.3% limit of THC you're, you don't have the psychedelic effects. You're not, nor don't have high effects. Um, that's what the stigma is. Um, gotcha.

[00:18:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Cause, um, and, and, and as you said that these, even these products have, have been around, it's just that the stigma is there. Uh, but it's a false stigma of these products. Cause these have been around for a long time with the Marin 

[00:19:10] Esan Forde, PharmD: all and so on. Exactly. Exactly. So, let me, let me back up here. So, you know, the cannabis plant, so most people think of cannabis plants, Mar marijuana plants or, you know, all you do is get high and there's really no medical benefit.

Well, obviously that's been, you know, debunked and, and disproven. So that actually there are medical benefits for this, and there are ongoing studies, uh, clinical trials and just ongoing studies showing that there is a use case for, uh, THC products and CBD products in many cases. So. So in essence.

So let me break it down. The cannabis plan again, there's about above 85 or more different cannabinoids in this plant. And many of them have many different medical benefits. Okay. And these different, different cannabinoids, THCs are just the most popular, most famous ones, but there are other cannabinoids on that planet.

That's just the most popular, most famous, you know, cannabinoid, but C B, D. Is also extracted from the same plant and it's used in different dosage forms and has a lot of medical benefits as well. And that's just two. But there's still other, as I said, over 80 more cannabinoids. And when you act, when they all act together in this full spectrum entourage effect, they call it in products.

You get all the different medicinal benefits from whether it be anti-anxiety, uh, algia for pain seizures, uh, insomnia, all these other, you know, medicals that it helps cure. So, and again, so C B D C B, D a C BG CBN. THCT HCA a. So all these are not. Chemicals most people hear about, but the, uh, when you do these cannabinoid profile tests, they're there and you see what benefits they have between these ailments.

[00:20:54] Mike Koelzer, Host: Interesting. And so, so you, so, so when, when you talk C B D do I have that right? Dr. Ford, that you then does your company then hope to go on and do the whole plan all 85 of, of these compounds together as a, as the, 

[00:21:13] Esan Forde, PharmD: uh, flower. And so. Okay. Yes, that's a good question. So there's a lot of products right now on the market, and a lot of people still get confused on what this is all about.

You'll see hemp oil products on the market, and that's from hemp seeds. You'll see, okay. CBD products on the market. And it says it should say, is it isolated or not? And you'll see another type of CBD product on the market and may say full spectrum or not. Now these are all completely different, but beware patient customers do not know what's what?

So they may be. Be overpaying for something or, and they don't know what the differences are, and I can explain those differences, but even more if you before, even that before even get to that finished product on the shelf, whether I said under, which is a very scary unregulated market right now, because there's not a lot of regulation, remember, and this is a plant, so it is cultivated.

So pesticides can be used, uh, Soil that hasn't been tested for these heavy metals and trace metals could be in these soils. Um, you know, fungus moles bacteria could be in these plants as well. So these tests, all these quality assurance tests should be going into the cultivation products process. And at the end to have these certificates to prove that this is a safe, healthy, a, a product that it's safe to ingest or put on your skin, that is where the regulation is not.

so you may have a product on your shelf, but where did it come from? Did it come from what plant? From what farm? From what seed is it organic? Do they use pesticides? Do they check for organic solvents? All these different things. And so you're still ingesting it, but a lot of people think, oh, it's it's it's it's okay.

They're being sold in a shed and a shelf. But if you, if they don't know how to ask the right questions, it could be harmful as well.

[00:22:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: so, all right. So you guys come out with these products and it sounds to me like your goal is to, um, have people trust you that you guys are given the straight medical scope, but how do you build that trust in the consumer? Good question. 

[00:23:21] Esan Forde, PharmD: Good question. The goal is to get safe, effective quality products in patients, hands in independent pharmacies, retailers, and across the country, safe, effective quality products.

And with certificates of analysis testing, to show that it's a, or, you know, it's a safe process that was came to, to, to make this product to, to, on the shelf. So how do we do it? Education is one, you know, having, having medical professionals on a team like myself, trusted healthcare professionals on a team that, you know, doctors trust patients trust is two.

Sure. Um, opening up, um, showing them chest results, bringing consumers down to our, you know, you know, big wholesalers down to our farm. Hey, come to the farm, walk the field, see the process, see the manufacturer, see how we, um, how we curate these, these products, um, how we get to the product. Yeah. Right. The farm.

What's that, 

[00:24:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: uh, right there on the farm. That that's 

[00:24:16] Esan Forde, PharmD: really interesting. Yeah. These kinds of things don't really happen in the industry right now. Um, you know, you don't only hear when, when a customer wants to, um, have a product, they don't know where it came from. That's the thing there's like in medicine and, and pharmaceuticals.

There's pedigree laws, man, pedigree laws from the manufacturer in China, Japan, Israel to importation. What wholesale did it come from to we repackaging to the end user Pharmac. This is all at pedigree loss of pharmaceutical medicines, but in this space, there is no pedigree loss. So you really don't know if you can't trace it back.

You really don't know what you're ingesting. What are you putting on your skin? Here's what harmful is. Cross your fingers that's cuz the regulation's not there yet. 

[00:24:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: So from, from people learning more about you and the background you've you're then building the, uh, you're building the trust with the brand, kind of like how it's not the same, but kind of like how Budweiser's gonna show the Clyde's Dales and the old fire trucks and things like that.

You're Condit showing who's standing behind all this. 

[00:25:16] Esan Forde, PharmD: Exactly, exactly. W with. And with, you know, openness and education, you know, you, you that's, that's the way you wanna go about it. Um, and obviously, you know, when, when patients ask doctors what, where to go for these products, they wanna be able to, you know, educating the doctors, cuz they're the ones, also the physicians, they are the ones telling patients where to go and sometimes you just, they don't know, oh, just go online, buy it or just go to the local local store, just whatever you can find.

And that's where. That's where the gray area comes in. Um that's and, and, you know, and this is, and this is not a, a new, uh, product or new, I guess, space. It just was really, it's been an unregulated space all this time. Yeah, exactly. So a lot of people are taking advantage of, you know, consumers not knowing a difference.

Um, Case in point case in point, um, hemp, seed oil, very popular, very common. You see it everywhere. Online hemp, seed oil, you know, kind of a lot of times are being marketed as you know, as what CBD is supposed to be marketed as more like for your treating your ailments and medical conditions. Well, hemp seed oil.

If people don't know him better. You know, that has very little CBD inside of it. Its hemp seed oil is just the seed from the plant, not the whole plant, just the hem seed itself. They are extracted into an oil and that seed has benefits, but its nutritional benefits vs. Minerals. Omega-3 fatty acid.

That's it. So what people advertise and market it as, Hey, use it for your anxiety, use it for all the others, you know what I'm saying? So people try to sell it for something else that it is. sure. And that's, that's where the education comes in and, and people making millions, millions of dollars are just lacking education because remember there's no clinical studies behind it.

There's no paperwork. So you really have to be kind on what's on the package. Penn, what do you think? You know? Yeah. What could you Google and find? Yeah. Right. 

[00:27:11] Mike Koelzer, Host: Dr. Ford from a, um, alright. From a business side then yes, you guys, you guys have this product and how do you. How ultimately, you wanna get it into pharmacies?

Is that through, uh, phone calls, advertising, uh, how, how do you, how do you guys go about that? 

[00:27:32] Esan Forde, PharmD: Doing podcasts like this really well, then 

[00:27:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: I get half the profit then. 

[00:27:40] Esan Forde, PharmD: I mean, it's, it's really about grassroots, you know, since I've been a pharmacist for almost 15 years, you know, grassroots, educating my colleagues, educating wholesalers, educating store owners, just grassroots education, but you know, a lot, I mean like, you know, CVS and Walgreens are getting into this space.

Now CVS has launched eight, eight states, 800 stores. They're gonna start putting out CD products. Well, they have a lot. Consultants and a lot of people to educate them, you know, Walgreens, 1500 stores. They have a lot of people to kinda hash this out and make this a viable business model to get into.

The normal, you know, mom and pop pharmacies in regular stores, retailers, they don't know where to go to buy these products. They don't know, well, I'll just call up Joe's farm and get these products directly. They just don't know. So there's a lot of, um, you know, profiteering in this space. There's a lot of, you know, lack of, of, uh, you know, security in this space because you gotta think about it.

And we 've heard this case before that a retailer was selling a CBD product. A regulator came in to just do spot check and they took a sample or bought a sample, went it back, went, took it back to the lab, tested it. And it was higher than the 0.3% of THC federal limit. Oh, guess what? That means.

That means you're selling a schedule, one drug just as bad as cocaine, heroin, marijuana. That is a huge felony offense. Yeah. That person almost lost their license. So. Begin if that retailer didn't know where they got that oil from who's the supplier did it come with? A certificate of analysis showing information?

Was that certificate analysis? Not adulterated. Yeah. Was it really, it's really a trust system, you know? 

[00:29:25] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. The, um, um, and I think one of the other barriers that I'm finding is, is. I'm under the assumption that if, for example, Michigan, if Michigan could carry it, that everybody would be carrying it.

And the problem is you look at the laws and they're quite confusing. So my buyer at my store says, let's get it. And I'm like, look at it as soon as possible. Soon as Walgreens on the corner gets it, or CVS does in Michigan, then I probably know we're safe because I'm sure they have lawyers all over it. But how is that my best way?

Or 

[00:30:03] Esan Forde, PharmD: how do we know here? Here's the thing. There are hundreds of farms around the country that could make the product. Now it's a matter of now, to get to a finished product, you have to obviously start from the seed. You cultivate the plant, extract it into an oil. So at any part in the process, you can just source an oil or source the plant biomass in particular, the, you know what I'm saying?

The materials to make the oil. So, you know, it may not, it may go through different hands, different, uh, entities before it gets to this finished product. So, yeah. So just because CVS may have it on their shelf. Well, where did, where do they get. Where did the oil come from? Well, where did the plant come from?

Well, where did the seed come from? So if they don't have that pedigree chain of continuity or where it all came. Now not well, do we trust that supply? Do we trust his supply? Do we trust that supplier? That's here's here's my 

[00:30:59] Mike Koelzer, Host: question though. My question on the legal front, though, when I, when I look at the legal, um, you know, things from Michigan, I'm looking at those and I can't really tell, and I say, you know, what, if it was legal, if it was legal for a pharmacy in Michigan to sell C B, D then Walgreens, which they don't yet Walgreens.

Yes. They would all have them already and because they don't sell them yet, I'm under the impression that it must not be, um, they must not be able to sell them yet. 

[00:31:34] Esan Forde, PharmD: Yeah. You're looking at a and a, like a, really a high, high level. Um, I know what you're saying in general, if you see it on the show, it must be legal in general and what you're saying.

Yeah. Um, right. Yes and no. Yes and no. Um, for instance, Um, in some states you can sell CBD, but it has to be 0% THC. What that means is that CBD isolate can be sold in that state CBD full spectrum cannot be sold in that state. I see because CBD full spectrum means it's below 0.3% of THC CBD isolate means that C CB isolate means I had zero THC at all.

And if it's not written on em, it is not written on the label. Again, buyer be well, cuz you don't know if you're buying isolate or it's full spectrum. If it doesn't have a certificate, it doesn't have the proper labeling, you know? So you really, you can't make a generalization, but I can say like CVS is selling full spectrum.

They partner up with a full spectrum. So I know they're that's I know that part, but again, all in eight states are pilots. Um, but again, um, most independent pharmacies right now, they're not gonna go and try and find direct sources for these products. They're gonna just wait till their whole. Pitches it to them.

Yeah, probably that's, that's what we're gonna do. And so, because it's so early in the game, I could tell you real, real life case studies right now. Um, most independents don't have it on their shelves. Most wholesalers are not selling it to them because I can tell you for a fact it is one big wholesaler.

That's been selling to a lot of independence right now. I won't say any names, but they're not even a pharmaceutical wholesale company. They're just a CPD company. And gotcha. I remember, and I, when I talked to one of our wholesalers, they got the price list from an independent pharmacy. And the prices that they're buying these products from are 150, 300% markups from yeah.

Right. Because, because there's just a monopoly, there's really not like a lot of competition. So, you know, the opportunity that we're presenting as a company, to these pharmacies that, Hey, you can still buy direct from trusted sources like us. All right. So what 

[00:33:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: what happens when, um, down the road, um, C D is obviously gonna have a trend, like other products it's gonna start off and then go through an up curve and then gradually level off and come down.

Does your company then? Does your company come up with some of these other 85 ingredients? Or do you sell the whole plant for states that allow recreational use or, or is it mainly a CBD focus? 

[00:34:03] Esan Forde, PharmD: When you say recreation, you're talking more about, um, anything about percent THC. They don't have that.

[00:34:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: These don't have the mental, uh, you know, change. 

[00:34:17] Esan Forde, PharmD: Exactly. It's kinda like my analogy is, and when you buy non-alcoholic beer, if you read the label, it says it contains less than 0.5% alcohol. So you see, it has a little bit of alcohol inside of it, but not enough to get you drunk or psychedelic effects of the beer, but it has a little bit of alcohol in it.

yeah, kind of the same analogy, the legal that's right. 0.3% or below has a little bit of TVC, which is good for medicinal benefits, but not enough to have the psychedelic effects that people are known for or popularity , seeing that student you're gonna get high for this. No. Um, but it's there, it's there and you want it there for some degree because it's, you know, studies have shown the THC, the THCA, the other cannabinoid.

Developments of the plant all together with something called entourage effect, synergistically helps that, you know, it enhances your, the medical benefit of the product. 

[00:35:11] Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. So what happens when the C B D goes through its cycle and I don't know, five or 10 years from now, it's calmed down. Yes. It's from sales.

Do you guys follow up with, are there gonna be other oils extracted from the 85 or what is your game plan after the C B D like, kind of not runs its course, but. You know, it kind of levels off. 

[00:35:33] Esan Forde, PharmD: Well, I think this, this is one, many ways you can look at this, you know, there's oils, there's different dosage forms.

There's SAS, there's creams. Gotcha. Um, there's edibles, they call 'em, um, there's soaps lotions. Uh, so this, you could, obviously the product list goes on and on and on. You'll see a lot of, um, other big chains are getting into. CBD infused ice cream, CBD, infused pastries, CBD, infused coffees, you know, all these different things.

So yeah, it's gonna be a big, big life cycle before everything's infused with CBD. Cuz everyone's coming around saying, oh, a little bit CBD is gonna help, not hurt, you know, type of thing. Um that's right. And then, and then out of all the differences I'm sure he'll come to a point where. Out of all the different cannabinoids that are available, the plant people will kind of start isolating some of the different cannabinoids, maybe C B, D a will be isolated out just for specific ailments for just that specific cannabinoid, you know?

[00:36:30] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Can remind. I, it kind of reminds me of, I, I know the product is not identical at all, but it kind of reminds me of like Allo, you know, back when, back when we were younger, you know, the Allo came out and then it's in everything and then you still see it in everything. So I, I see what you're saying about that life cycle.

It kind of keeps 

[00:36:46] Esan Forde, PharmD: going. Yeah, and you know, and more and more well through education, more and more people will know, um, that it, because of the medical benefits of it, you can kind of titrate yourself off of some of these pharmaceutical medications and, and, and it seems to be working in a lot of cases. I know one patient that we're treating has spinal stenosis arthritis, an older lady in her eighties, and she takes, you know, Tylenol number three and some Vicodin PRN.

And, you know, ever since she's been talking. E CBD oil. She's noticed that her pain is pain. Scale's gone down. She doesn't have to be around the clock. Tylenol. Number three, she sleeps better through the night. So she's kind of winning herself off some of these opiates. And guess what? Less opiates, less risk of side effects, less liver toxicity.

You know, all the different things are associated with opiates, less addiction, risk, all these things help. So she's forever grateful. So more and more people realize that, you know, this is good. An additive. I'm not saying you could stop certain medications per se, but this is a good additive adjunctive therapy to add to your treatments to that's long as it's not, you know, drug interactions or drug or disease and interactions, still talk to your doctor or pharmacist about these products before you start using them.

But it only would help in a lot of cases. 

[00:38:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: All right, Dr. Ford, what? All right, so this is gonna take off. It's gonna do well, but what, what do. Uh, cliche keeps you up at night. What do you, what do you personally, um, worry about? If anything, with regards to being involved with something like this, whether it's too much stress or too much time or, or, or everything going, you know, bad, what do, what are your concerns like personally?

[00:38:34] Esan Forde, PharmD: Well, when it comes to this business, right? Close agriculture and our products and, and where we're going with this, my, my concerns are that regulators don't step in eventually to help weed out the people that are doing, not doing things the right way. Right. Um, and that, because it really does really give a back stigma between the facilities like ours, that we're trying to go about it the right way.

ISO classifi rooms and GMP facilities and, you know, making sure ours are organically grown, you know, no chemicals are used versus trying to someone trying to just lower the price of a product. That's a very low price just to get it on the shelf. And it's harming patients. It's really kind of productive to patient care wellness, quality products.

And so you do what we do welcome. Uh, regulators and stay rather to educate themselves, get in the market, start having some regulation because consumers are using 'em. I mean, I say more than 60% of consumers are using these products. So you wanna make sure they're using safe and effective products and before someone's harmed, you know?

Yeah. You want to get kind of like 

[00:39:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: a pharmacy. You don't want everybody in the world selling, uh, our extra, you want to have regulations to, um, keep things on the up and up. And, and I, you know, I, and I guess to, to weed out, You know, just weed out people that you don't wanna be, not necessarily monetarily competing with, but just you want, you wanna be competing with people on the up and up.

[00:39:58] Esan Forde, PharmD: Exactly. And again, I'm, I'm, I'm I'm, I'm Dr. Ford first. I'm a healthcare professional first, and I care about patients and education and, and, and, you know, provide these consultations to patients. So when I give them. an option, whether it be vitamins, minerals, what have you, if it's not for, you know, pharmaceutical prescriptions, then I wanna make sure it's gonna be safe and effective.

So same thing with this space, you see if it's gonna be safe and effective, I wanna make sure they're getting quality products. Because even if they don't buy our products, they buy something else. Because it's so much cheaper, but they still should be educated. Hey, you know, Do you know, if it has pesticides in it, you know, do you know if it has any, you know, harmful chemicals in it?

Do you know no known if the answers are all no. Then just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's safer. Yeah. Right. 

[00:40:42] Mike Koelzer, Host: All right. So, so you woke up, you wake up tomorrow and this was all a dream that, that this product does not exist and you're not into the, you're not into the, you know, the products and the flowers and the wholesale and retail and all that.

This did not exist. You wake up. What would you be doing? What? Um, What avenue would you be going down if this did not exist? Do you have that fire to say, you'd wanna do something like this? Or, or, or would you say, eh, it was, it came along . I'm not looking for it, but, so, so one, would you be doing something and two, what, what do you think it might be if it wasn't this.

[00:41:23] Esan Forde, PharmD: If it wasn't what, repeat that part. If it wasn't, 

[00:41:27] Mike Koelzer, Host: if C, B D did not exist and you never, you know, you never met the farmers and you weren't going down the C B D road, would you? Okay. I know the answer. I was looking on your LinkedIn and I see a little bit of real estate work in there, too. Their job

[00:41:45] Esan Forde, PharmD: What else would my focus be on? Basically? You're saying, yeah. What else would you focus on? If this didn't exist? That's a good question. Cause I'm always multitasking and, uh, and, and trying to be the best I can be with, you know, whether it be me being a father, just yeah. Being a good dad, me being, you know, a good healthcare professional.

What would I get myself into? Huh? Yeah. Do 

[00:42:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: you think it'd be something on a, on a, on a product or a national level or something, or. 

[00:42:09] Esan Forde, PharmD: Uh, yeah, I mean, I, you know, and again, when you wanna just wanna go back to my product, the health, the skincare product, you know, people want, you know, organic products, people want, you know, healthier products, sustainable products, less chemical.

So it does kind of come back, does merge again into, well, what. Is a good, healthy, alternative to add to this product. Gotcha. So it, it, it all kind of comes back, cuz this, the world is coming towards, you know, more natural, sustainable living, sustainable farming, sustainable products, less chemicals, less preservative.

So, you know, and, and more and more every year, um, more prescription drugs are coming out. So more people want other options. So, me and I are dealing with patients. 20 medications, 15 medications complications. Right. You know, I always wanna try and give them another option, you know? Yeah. Right. Um, so I would be always thinking of something, whether it be a healthy, healthy, alternative of a supplement of some sort that can give them hope.

So they don't have to just take that pharmaceutical pill that gives them nausea every time, you know? Yeah. So I would be thinking of something, you know, in that regard. Yeah. 

[00:43:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: Something, something to fill that hole of, of natural, but, but not going down the road of, uh, with all the, all the chemicals and all those things.

And there's, and there's a lot 

[00:43:24] Esan Forde, PharmD: of areas for that. I'm sure there's a lot of areas for that. You know, I mean, again, you know, I was trained with, you know, Western medicine and prescription drugs for everything. Yes. I know. And there's, there's a lot of data behind it and I could support that data, but again, that's not the only thing that people could use to help treat their elements, you know?

And. And so I think that's, what's, you know, besides healthy living as well. So I think I'd be coming up with a creative, healthy product of some sort to help patients with their elements, because I hear these stories every day, all day, you know? 

[00:43:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: Right. What would you do right now with a hundred million dollars in your 

[00:43:54] Esan Forde, PharmD: hand?

Oh, what would I do that, uh, all this that's a good question. I think it will be podcast number two. Cause I think of it. definitely, I'd definitely give back and donate, um, you know, you know, kind of scholarship funds, you know, I would help, you know, educate, I, I, you know, I'm not greeting type of person, you know, I like my, my, my things, but away a little yeah.

You know, like think of a spare, a little lamb. That's fine. But, uh but again, you know, I really, I really, I really do, would take the time to help others. 

[00:44:31] Mike Koelzer, Host: If you had a hundred million, you'd still be, you'd still be involved with people. You'd still be maybe even 

[00:44:37] Esan Forde, PharmD: the medical field. yeah. You know, I'd still be a pharmacist.

I'd still be a pharmacist. I'd still be doing consultations. I'd still be helping people. I'd still be kind of going outta my way to, uh, give them, you know, good treatment options. You know, that's my love, that's my passion. And if I can blend the two worlds together, like I'm doing now with Western medicine and healthy products, like CBD products and hem products, and that's a great op you know, great blend.

So I'd still be involved in that regard. I wouldn't be retired in The Bahamas somewhere. just not doing anything. What, what was the 

[00:45:06] Mike Koelzer, Host: other. Dr. Ford, you had mentioned the other, um, the other schooling you had, what was the other one? You mentioned first, 

[00:45:15] Esan Forde, PharmD: um, clinical exercise physiology with a master's degree, you mean?

[00:45:19] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. So that was a, that was a clinical, 

[00:45:21] Esan Forde, PharmD: um, yes, I have a bachelor's in exercise science and a master's in exercise in sports science and specialization was clinical physiology. So, um, you know, that's what. Pharmacy came after that pharmacy came after that. But it's, it's funny that you mentioned that because that degree of masters in clinical physiology took maybe like eight different physiology classes, gross anatomy, pharmacology.

So that really helped my fundamentals of learning how the body works and functions. And then we add pharmacy pharm D with the pharmacology, knowing with phar, with physiology as a background, it really kind of puts things together in perspective. Yeah. 

[00:46:03] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, it gives you the, it, it lets, you know, what's actually happening 

[00:46:07] Esan Forde, PharmD: to the body.

Exactly, exactly. Right. So, that was my background in that. 

[00:46:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: What would you put on a billboard, if you could, if you could buy a billboard right now, um, let's say it's for this product and you get like, I don't know, seven or eight words to make your statement of, of, of this product. What's the billboard gonna say?

Oh, 

[00:46:30] Esan Forde, PharmD: billboard for this product per se, these products. 

[00:46:33] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. 

[00:46:36] Esan Forde, PharmD: Hmm. That's a good one. Say 

[00:46:39] Mike Koelzer, Host: it's gonna probably have trust in, in there and probably, and probably, probably a lot of trust stuff, 

[00:46:45] Esan Forde, PharmD: right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, Believe in yourself. Trust yourself. Educate yourself. Yeah, I like that. 

[00:46:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: that was only six words. You got, you packed a lot in there.

[00:47:02] Esan Forde, PharmD: all right. What do you yourself, trust yourself and educate yourself. That's it? That's your six. Believe 

[00:47:06] Mike Koelzer, Host: yourself, trust yourself 

[00:47:09] Esan Forde, PharmD: and educate 

[00:47:10] Mike Koelzer, Host: yourself. Yeah, that makes sense, because there's so much information out there that you have to still have that. Belief that you're not, you know, you've cause learning without belief, you know, you get into some kind of crazy areas, you know, with, uh, um, following certain, you know, certain, um, oh, not cliques, but you know, you know, um, what, what do they call those?

What do they call those? What I'm, what's the word I'm looking for? The heaven's gate, the, uh, 

[00:47:42] Esan Forde, PharmD: You know. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. The whole, you know, the whole Manson thing. I mean, you can be open to stuff, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta always have that skepticism don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. You always have to have an open mind and when to learn. and doesn't matter if you get second opinions and ask and ask again and, you know yeah. I suppose that's changed 

[00:48:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: training too, you know, where that comes from a lot of that, a lot of that, you know, learning, but, but seeing it from a lot of different angles to make sure 

[00:48:12] Esan Forde, PharmD: it's all lining up.

Yeah, it definitely, definitely. And just this, so just pet peeve is, um, does the misinformation. You know, people like to profiteer off patients and misinformation or not knowing any better. That's kind of like a, my micros set to educate, educate, educate, make better decisions for themselves. The 

[00:48:33] Mike Koelzer, Host: word I was looking for is cult for all the listeners screaming out at cult.

That we, I couldn't think of that. All right. So with, with the pharmacist listening, as we, uh, get ready to close things down here, Dr. Ford, what, what would you, you know, you, you come into them and, you know, the O the classic elevator pitch kind of thing. What would you, um, you get more than seven words on this one.

What would. Right now you'll have a chance to speak to some of them or listen. What do you wanna tell them? And go ahead and even tell them, um, a call to action if you want them to. 

[00:49:12] Esan Forde, PharmD: Well, you know, there's a big call to action for independent pharmacies, you know, independent pharmacies. It's still a struggling space.

You know, the margins of small insurance, Medicare, all these different things. So, you know, they always need to come up with creative ways to make money in a safe and, you know, a compliant way. And this is a great, great way to, to get in early, um, to get a, get a head, start to help your patient at the same time and, and really write good margins on this in a.

In a reasonable and sensible way. Um, so a call to action is basically, you know, contact us, reach out to us. You know, we are one of the, you know, high quality farms you can still buy direct from, you know, before we partner up with all these wholesalers and you talk to the wholesalers, not us directly. Um, so call, you know, that call to action is, you know, if you want to help your patients and have a great time.

Products on your shelf at a reasonable cost and price and everything, you know, reach out to us, we can do private labeling, or you can sell a brand. There's a lot of different options and, you know, cause it's everywhere. You know, I don't want them to be everyone's independence to be competing against, always competing against CVS and Walgreens.

And right now they are taking the lead again. You know, so I'm, I'm reaching out to a lot of pharmacists that I know, you know, and the independence I know to wake up and if pharmacists wanted to be entrepreneurial. You know, we have, you know, talking to us directly, we have a program where we can just start with just a slow, small, small minimum order quantity, say for instance, 36 bottles to get started, you can private label it yourself or have a brand, but again, you can have your own website.

You could be an entrepreneur on your own mind, on your own, in your own, you know, storefront or just on your own website and then doing this yourself. Um, so if there're entrepreneurial pharmacists who believe in this space and want to get involved in this space, this is the great opportunity to start right now.

um, to, and you have your website and, and you can, you can have your educational website blog on your website and have these great products that to sell as well. Um, because again, I guarantee every day, patients are walking to pharmacies asking, where do I go? Where do I buy this? Where do I go? Where do I buy this?

This is it. Straighten 

[00:51:18] Mike Koelzer, Host: my thinking out. I know I asked you this already. I, but, but let me get it. Let me get your take on it one more time. So I'm sitting in grand rapids in Michigan and I've got big stores, you know, Walmart and CVS and, and Walgreens and so on. And none of them are advertising C B D oil yet.

And I, and I know they would, if they could. And so I'm under the impression that. Legally for some reason they can't and I'm instead of hiring my own lawyer, I'm just depending on, you know, that, that they must know is, is that, is that good thinking or is that, or, or would you argue that. 

[00:52:01] Esan Forde, PharmD: You know, I would say you can dispel the rumors, the myths and everyth that, and just Google it.

I just wa as you're asking me this question, I just look up Michigan and CBD and find out the law from the Michigan department of licensing regulatory affairs, just like that simple. Um, it says Michigan offers guidance on CBD and industrial hemp as of March two, nine, 2019. So just like that, I can answer the question.

So that's what I would say. Because every state law is different. So I wouldn't necessarily wait till someone starts doing it. Obviously CVS starts doing it. Obviously that's a bigger entity. You would think obviously that's cleared in some capacity, but you still wanna make sure what they do, what do they, do they legalize the CBD full spectrum or is the CBD isolated?

Is it zero THC products? You know what? Gotcha. Yeah, because. because 

[00:52:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: they might put something on their shelf and it might have like zero something in it. So you gotta, you, can't just, it's like, it's like we have to do our own homework. Like we were talking about, you can't really trust it positively or negatively.

You really have to look, look, what's 

[00:53:06] Esan Forde, PharmD: going on. Yes, I'm looking right now. So CBD products produced for marijuana will not be regulated as marijuana. If the THC content is below 0.3%, this is Michigan. Licensing and regulatory affairs, just simple as that. Every state law has a regulatory body that addresses this and does subject matter.

And you can easily find out right there from the source. Um, but it 

[00:53:27] Mike Koelzer, Host: seems, it seems there, like, it seems they're like a. You know, maybe there's tr maybe there's double laws, like, like the pharmacy, the pharmacy law maybe says one thing and maybe the, the, you know, the retail law says one thing and you gotta 

[00:53:42] Esan Forde, PharmD: go with a more stringent you're you're actually absolutely correct.

So in some states, for instance, like Ohio, for instance, um, the board of pharmacy actually regulates CBD space. So the board of pharmacy has the jurisdiction over that other states like Michigan is just a department of licensing and regulatory fair. You have to know your specific state laws and just by going to Google on the websites, you can actually see what the state laws are and who is the regulatory body.

And so because of that, that's how you make yourself more educated. Um, like I said, educate yourself, um, get the fact, get the facts. Um, obviously if you're just trying to follow CVS, well, even if CVS does some things wrong sometimes, but they. You know, a hundred lawyers, they can back themselves from getting themselves out of a pickle, but you don't have that kinda money.

So you don't necessarily always wanna follow their big coattails like that. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:54:30] Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. Well, back before it, it was such a pleasure. Tell, tell me, um, tell, tell us the exact way for someone to see what we're talking about here. I know you have a website. Let's let's hear what 

[00:54:43] Esan Forde, PharmD: that is. Oh yes.

So it's, uh, it's the company's called right coast agriculture. The website is www right coast hemp, emp.com, right coast, hemp.com. Um, and that's the website. Uh, we just launched it maybe a couple weeks ago. So, you know, it's gonna be continuing to add more products to that. Um, um, if you wanna reach out to get my presentation that I made for you.

Pharmacies retailers, things that never not a pharmacist takes on educating. They can email me at Dr. Ford, D R F O R D E. OLS, agriculture.com, Dr. Ford OLS, agriculture.com. And I can send you, um, that information, how to get started on our presentation and put together, um, to help educate between all these different things we talked about today.

Um, and just call me, you know, I'm you can just call me, I don't mind giving my number out as well. 

[00:55:38] Mike Koelzer, Host: Wonderful. Well, listen, Dr. Ford, it's been a pleasure if you do happen to wake up and you have that a hundred million dollars, I'll take 

[00:55:45] Esan Forde, PharmD: some of it. I'll definitely donate to your show. Keep this donate to the 

[00:55:50] Mike Koelzer, Host: show.

All right. Thank you, Dr. 

[00:55:52] Esan Forde, PharmD: Ford. We'll talk again. All right. Thank you. Thanks for having all right, bye. All right. Bye bye.

[00:56:01] Mike Koelzer, Host: This was the business of a pharmacy podcast with me, your host, Mike Keer. Please subscribe for future episodes.