Harnessing Creativity as an Entrepreneur | Allyson Brennan, PharmD, Emogene & Co. Natural Skincare

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Well, hello Ellison. Hey Mike, how 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm doing good. Allyson, for those who haven't come across you online, tell our listeners your name and tell them why we're 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: talking tonight. So, um, so my name is Allyson Brennan. Um, I am actually a pharmacist, um, in a hospital in Nashville, I'm in, uh, pharmacy administration.

Um, and I actually started my own skincare line in January called Emogene and Co. It's, a natural skincare company. Um, with the pharmacist background of the science behind the natural ingredients. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Who's your biggest competitor for your skin? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Right now it's probably just very small Lynn, uh, local indie groups, um, because I'm so brand new starting out, but, um, it's grown so fast that I'm starting to learn.

I would say in this fourth quarter who my competitors really 

Mike Koelzer, Host: are. And they're your main competitors, because you sort of put yourself in that position when you go and talk to people. Yeah, 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I would say so. Um, for me personally, in this company, Um, I mean, I'm still working full time. And so this is something I do when I come in on two wheels, um, and do until about two o'clock in the morning and then on the weekend.

So everything's e-commerce, um, there's no brick and mortar, so it's very local. Um, pop-ups. I was just in Memphis this past weekend for a popup and I have, um, 11 wholesalers, so 11 stores that carry me, including a dermatology clinic and three med spas. So it's really those smaller, um, natural skincare companies.

And I would say the thing that I really put my stamp on as I grew this company to kind of set me aside, you know, set me apart, I guess I should say, um, is the fact that there's a lot of people like that. Claim natural skincare and don't really know the science behind the ingredients. And so having that medicinal chemistry background, which is really where I nerd out a lot, um, is where I can speak to the importance of the ingredients and why they're important and how they break down into being important for the skin.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. So your business, your selling online, but when you sell to these places, they end up selling face to face to them. To their people, to the consumers. Now, when you say pop-up, is this like one of those flash mobs where you say that Allison's going to be here and the whole city comes in, like gangs up?

What does that mean? A pop-up. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: So a pop-up is, is kinda like what you just said. That's so funny. Um, where the masses collide. Um, so really think of, think of like a farmer's market or think of a maker's market, right? Like a holiday market. Um, it's announced months in advance. People might buy tickets to come.

Um, it's, it's several different vendors, you know, it's anything, it could really be anything from jewelry to home goods, to paper goods, whatever that may be. Um, and then skincare and beauty as a part of that. Well for a pop-up a pop-up is where it's usually announced right before let's say a week. Um, it's really like a, you drop it on people for them to really go to number one, increase the business at the business that is hosting the pop-up.

So you usually coordinating or collaborating with another business, um, on top of really getting your followers to come in there to see you to purchase some of your products, to be able to speak about skin care personally, for me, I was able to really do a lot of, um, skincare education 

Mike Koelzer, Host: is the essence of the short time.

Does that make it more desirable? Like, like you're gonna pop up, like it's a surprise thing. I mean, is it better to only give a week than to give a month? Is there something desirable about having short notice or, or not necessarily. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I think it's really in the eyes of the holder. You know, I think that it could take a couple of different forms for me personally, if I'm a consumer, we're all consumers.

Um, but as a consumer, it really is that desirable effect. Um, and if you're going to do a popup, it's tough for a business that doesn't have many people that might be your return customers to come to you. Right? So let's say that you're a brand new business and you're doing a pop-up, but you're, you're partnering with a local business that has a very good clientele or customer base.

It's where you can offer your expertise. For instance, in this case of skincare education, Um, as well as offering products that might not be carried in that store. And that's the opportunity to do that, or if the opportunity just to come make the maker. Um, so it's just a very [00:05:00] personable kind of approach to a sale.

Really, when they're 

Mike Koelzer, Host: selling this, do they let them know that this is Alison stuff? And this is her, you know, this is her thing. They already know. There's like a person behind it. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Yes. Yes. So for my brand, my brand is. Is featured as a pharmacist formulated skincare brand. So it's, um, like I said, that's where I really hope to really separate myself from the market.

Right. So when, when this might be marketed, let's say, or advertised as meet the maker, or it's a pop-up, it is the availability of products as well as products that might not be offered in the line that they are carrying. I mean, I have 22 products and let's say, the store picks up nine. Okay. I can bring all 22.

Um, so it appeals to the, your, your following and your customers that are already loyal customers to come in and say, oh, instead of let's say paying shipping, or shipping that to me, I can actually go and just pick it up from the store. I was already planning on going in that store to get a gift for. Okay.

The other piece of that is where you're talking about meeting the maker is very niche in what I'm doing. For instance, if someone's coming in to meet me, it's not that they just get to shake hands, you know, and say, oh, there's a face there. They should already know the story it's available on my website, as well as that is part of the stores that carry me.

I'm very, I personally set those accounts up for me personally. So I want them to know what they're selling. That's very important to me. Um, for them to know it's a pharmacist that formulated this, she's going to be in our store. If you have questions about skin care in general, our regimen. Of her line of top to bottom, what would be appropriate for your skin type?

She's here to answer all of those questions. So that's, that's the appeal for a pop-up in this type of market. The other thing for me, honestly, Mike, is I'm really big on relationships. I'm really big on building that with someone I don't plan on building this business into, um, a, this, this multi country business.

Although that would be wonderful for me. It's all about relationship building. I want people to trust me and the advice that I would give them as a pharmacist to improve their skin health. You know, it's not just about beauty, it's really about improving the health of your skin. So I think that to build that relationship builds trust, and then as they build trust those, try a product.

And if they like that, they'll come back and say, okay, this is really what I'm looking for. Can you. Suggest or recommend a couple of our products. And at that point I can recommend based on that trust I have with them, which is really important to me. And then I have a repeat customer. So when I have those repeat customers, they are the people that kind of spread those, the arms of growing the company.

It's wild, what this little company has done in a year or just word of mouth before I even started to sell it to the wholesale clientele and stores in dermatology clinics, you know, do people 

Mike Koelzer, Host: ever come up and want to take a selfie with. 

That's 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: funny, and I'm not that big of a celebrity. I know, but I want to ask.

I will. I'll be honest. Yes. I mean, just this past weekend in Memphis that I had just a couple. Yeah. And, and the clientele I have where people I know, and I don't know. So some were people that I know, and then there were a couple of people I did not 

know 

Mike Koelzer, Host: yet. All right. Here's the follow-up: have they asked for your autograph, but, but asking for the selfie is the same thing.

No, 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I have not gotten an autograph. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. You don't get autographs anymore. It's a selfie. I know. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: It's that proof. I used to have a little diary and I was big baseball, really big into baseball. And I would take this little. Yellow diary with Donald duck on the front of it to Atlanta Braves games. And I would sit outside as they were coming out of the locker room with my parents.

And just sit there, asking for autographs, because you know, back then, that's the proof that you got to see them in real life. We wouldn't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: do that at Disney world. And you'd get one from like Mickey mouse and the next day it would be totally different. I mean, that guy was on drugs or there's something fishy going on there.

Autograph. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: What, what was that all about? Yeah. I'm with ya 

Mike Koelzer, Host: two o'clock in the morning. What time were you going to bed? Three years ago. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Let's say before I started this company before, you know, children change, change the routine. I don't know, maybe 10, 30 or 11. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: All right. So you're up til two, some nights now?

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Yes, every night, 

usually 

Mike Koelzer, Host: every night. What's your mind thinking at 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: one at one it's. How much more can I get done without getting sloppy in the next 30 minutes? And then clean up, what are you 

Mike Koelzer, Host: doing? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Um, you know, it's different. Um, it's [00:10:00] funny because I'm starting to find my groove and it's, it's so funny.

You're asking that I was just thinking about this two days ago. So I am at my strongest, my most alert. I've had dinner and had, um, you know, I've helped with bath time. I've put, you know, a daughter to bed and then I'm really sharp in that. I put on my muse, I had my routine, I put my music on, um, I created a sterile field and I started whatever I'm batching that night because I'm still doing full blown making.

I have two employees and a delivery person as well. So any of the really complicated products that I'll offer, which are serious serums or, or items that have an oil phase in a water phase and a heat Nicole phase, things like that. Um, I'm still doing all of that. So it's bulking about a hundred units at a time, and I'm only usually gonna pick about one, um, that I'm going to do.

And. How I'll say I've got about two and a half strong hours of that. And then, and what's crazy. I'm learning as a small business owner, you're doing that. You have so many other plates that are spinning in your mind, right? So I'm doing this and you don't want to mess up something. So you're saying focus just because a pharmacist, you know, checking or mixing or whatever.

But then I've got, I need to send those receipts to the accountant. I still need this bulk packaging that I need to order. What are my par levels on that? Cause I keep pars. Um, okay. I have that email mark Conine, uh, that needs to go on and that SEO, strategic management meeting tomorrow after work. Okay.

What are the other things I need to do in my household? I've got 60 loads of laundry I haven't done. So, you know, it's, it's all of these things that never stopped. So then I would say once I'm finished batching, um, and what I have now is there's, you know, it's everything from the beginning to the filling, to the labeling, to the heat, sealing to the sales.

I do all of that. Uh, from my home, I create a sterile field in my home. There's gloves, there's masks, everything's ice of alcohol. Um, you know, all of those types of things. Um, all of the stainless steel is alcohol. All of the bakers are alcohol. All of those things happen before I even start the mixing, but that one o'clock.

Time kind of comes right as I'm probably on I've already finished or I'm right at the last bit of finishing. So what my groove is lately is a change in the music, right? I changed, I changed it to bring you down music. And I sit at my table, which is actually behind me right now with a laptop. I have a printing station, thermal printer.

I have a third-party shipping company. Software and I go ahead and pack orders. So I will pack orders for 30 minutes, but I usually had done that maybe in the first hour of coming home. So it's the last bit of doing that, uh, pack them up for the delivery girl to come the next day. Um, yeah, so, so it's really, that last bit of the night is where the struggle really is.

If you're, you don't want to have to think too hard because that's when I do my, my weighing and my labeling, or I'll take care of a couple of admin things that I've already got, you know, ready to send you have people 

Mike Koelzer, Host: at your house. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: No, no, no, no. It's just me and my husband and my daughter, but the other girls that helped me, I actually have a chemotherapy technician that I've known for 10 years.

So she's a seven on seven off employee. So on her seven days off, she is able to come here and she makes six of the 21 products. Um, so I created a sterile field for her. And these are the ones that are easier to make without all the complicated, you know, cooling and heating and water and oil and emulsifiers.

And, um, she does that. And then she also will then take things to her home and she heats seals there. Um, and she creates bath products that don't require a sterile field. And then another girl I have who is actually one of my employees at the hospital. Um, I'm a clinical manager, so I manage 20 pharmacists and she is one of my staff members.

The hospital, she's my ER pharmacist. And, um, she will actually stay at her house and she does all of the labeling. So let's say I create all of these. You know, skincare products and I don't have, you know, till two in the morning to do labeling and heat sealing. She does all of those things after her daughter goes to bed because that doesn't require a sterile field.

You know, I will, I will pack everything up. I mean, it looks like I am literally moving houses every day of the week and my car. And so we met, we met up and she took it and she labels and hates sales. And then she brings it back to me, and other city regulations. Um, I mean, um, it's not like I'm cooking a meth lab.[00:15:00] 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I was just going to say, I'm picturing pictures of breaking bad, you know, here at, have you seen the show? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Oh, should I get a big RV? I mean, don't say it hasn't crossed my mind. Maybe I should get an RV. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm thinking your house is covered with all the blue tarps, a blue tarp and 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: stuff. No, no, because it's not illegal.

Anything that I'm doing is illegal, but at the same time, you know, I, as a pharmacist and I think this is where it's really interesting. You bring this up in the skincare world and I'm learning so many things in this. As I have gone down rabbit holes of this, as I, as I actually started. You know, I found the passion for this, and it really stems back to a very pertinent moment for me.

But as I started down this rabbit hole as a pharmacist, you know, first and foremost, to go to those places, to look at the things of what are your regulations from the food drug and cosmetic tack, right? Um, you, you already are very aware of what those acts say, but, but you're used to it from a drug perspective.

So now I'm focusing on this cosmetic piece and making sure that everything's legit and everything's kosher. So I do that. I, and that really comes down to your labeling and what you're offering. Okay, because I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm treating anything diagnosing or preventing, right. So then you start to think, and as a pharmacist, there's a difference between knowing the science behind ingredients.

But also you think about all the other things that are available. If there's no regulations in that market, there are people that can put out skincare and actually have no science behind it. No, N no anything. Right. And it, and it gets scary. The other piece of this that is very mind blowing to me is this all started for me when, um, I'll be 40 in December and I was 38.

And I remember talking, I was like, I'm going to start to take better care of my skin. And I bought a vitamin C serum. It's a very potent antioxidant serum. I paid 150 bucks for it. Right. I turn on the back of it and I'm reading the label and. I don't see a score book acid anywhere. And I know as a pharmacist, that's what vitamin C is.

Okay. So where is it? I see a metabolite of it. So then I literally started Googling. So I start to Google and go down. Like I said, a rabbit hole of knowledge and realizing, okay, there's, there's synthetic esters and there's pure. And why don't you use one over the other. And then I start to see what the racket is of the skincare industry, the toxic ingredients, the prices on skincare.

That, I mean, as a consumer, I pay. You know, we're human beings. And so we like, um, certain things in our packaging, certain things in our smells, certain things in the feel of products. And I think about all this, as well as what you just said about, you know, the regulations of the food drug and cosmetic doc, I'm like, this is mind blowing what no, everyone needs to know this knowledge.

And so a goal for me in 2021, because I have really outgrown my kitchen and grown my home. I mean, I have a warehouse basically in every closet, in my home of packaging and raw materials, um, is a warehouse space in 2021. So there was a central location for not just storage, but also mixing and compounding and all of those things.

Where's that going to be? Um, I've got a couple of places I'm looking. It would be between my hospital, where I work and my. How far is that? Uh, within 10 miles, I drive in Nashville. The traffic's pretty bad, um, that I drive 23 miles to my hospital. And how 

Mike Koelzer, Host: long does that 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: take you? That's what's crazy.

Um, my previous facility that I was at, which is a sister facility of where I am now, I was our neuro pharmacy specialist for nine years. And so that's downtown Nashville. So that was 21 miles for me. And that took 45 minutes. And you, you really had about a 10 minute window of when it could be 35 to 45 minutes.

Right. Um, and so now I drive 23, 24 miles and it's literally the exact same because I'm actually going backwards. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh, I got ya. You're doing backwards. So it still takes the same amount of time. There's less traffic. So you can look at your phone more often and not have as much of a chance of getting into a wreck with another car.

Don't shush me. I know, I 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: know how that works. You know exactly how it works because you know, you're leaving one, I'm leaving one full-time career, you know, uh, managing people and administration. And then I'm like, okay, that's really, the only time I have alone is that 35 to 40, 45 minutes before I get home and start a whole other job while I'm also trying to parent and be a wife, tend to leave in 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the morning to go to work seven 15.

And [00:20:00] what time do you get 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: home? Well, I'll pick my daughter up and she's right around the corner, right at her daycare. So I'd say I'd get home by five. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Have you become a. better Or worse worse employee for the hospital now that you're doing this, because some people, they love the commotion. Right. You know, having all this stuff going on, but some people could say, oh, I like that thing I'm doing at night.

And compared to that, this stuff during the day is kind of a drag. We don't want to get you in trouble here, but 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: no, no, listen. I'm full disclosure of everything. Um, let me ask you a question first, before I answer that. Are you familiar with Enneagram? 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, you put all this stuff in and mine always comes out and it says I'm an old guy.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: No, no, that's actually not one of the result types of the Enneagram 

Mike Koelzer, Host: for me, 

it is you have to look up in the appendix, it's got like an asterisk and it says, go look in the back. And my wife and everybody, they get the, you know, I'm a 1 and a 3 or I'm aggressive and there's mine always comes out to be fat and old.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Well, a man comes out to a full blown three and the three is the achiever. So what I have found though I was a sec, I was actually a psychology major and graduated with a psychology major, a BS in psychology, and then a minor in chemistry and biology. Before I went into pharmacy school. That's why I'm saying, I really focus on relationships.

Understanding people and building that trust with them. Um, so the Enneagram for me is crazy because it puts words to show the lens that I see people through and my actions. So for me, I'm a three, which is the achiever and what the achiever is, is exactly what it sounds like, but they can run themselves ragged because they're a chameleon, right.

They know how to work in a lot of different places. They're charismatic people. But they're workhorses usually, and they don't know how to just sit and be. So I would say I've actually become a better employee now that I've got a groove, because what I do is I've got this focus when I'm working at really just maximizing that space.

Right. And I'm managing people and putting out fires all day and it's different because it's not patient care for me anymore. I mean, I was taking care of neuro patients, you know, for 13 years and then came into this space. So I would say I leave it all on the table, right. When I'm at the hospital. And then I've got that 35 to 45 minute window, which is really my time to just be, and I don't know how to do that.

So I'm, I'm multitasking on that. Drive home it's phone call meetings, you know, Uh, visibility and content of social media, it's already loaded, right? It's really becoming more efficient in any space that I'm in. It's ready. Boom. You got to do this boom. And it takes a while to get there. And then when I get home, I would say where I'm probably going to become, um, the worst is where I'm trying to balance that, um, family time with what that achieving is because this is very important for me as well as my career during the day.

And, uh, And then you've, you are a mother and a wife. And so when I come home I'm really starting to become more intentional because I'm aware of my actions to put the phone down to be uninterrupted, even for an hour, you know, that hour I'm learning now. It goes a long way, um, instead of trying to multitask, but I'm not perfect at it, you know, but I would say when it comes to an employee, um, um, my, my boss is very well aware of my company.

Um, I'm very careful not to skew the line. I take that very, very personally. I want to make sure that he understands that. And I understand that and, and I'm transparent with him, but, um, I'm not going to say there wasn't a time where, you know, you're trying to manage so many things and I wouldn't say I thrive in chaos.

It's more of building, right? It's this building momentum. But now that I've got a really great groove, I can literally focus and turn off one thing and then focus and turn off the other, like you 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Say, you can, you can keep getting better. You can improve that when you move to your warehouse, by that time, will you have enough people that your not coming home then at nine 30 or 10 or 11 at night?

Or will you come home and never go back or are you going to quit your job by then? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: All of those things are such. They're up in the air because I don't know what that looks like yet. And, and, you know, I didn't, if you would've asked me, like you said, was that, what time was I going to bed three years ago?

Um, if you would have asked me what I was going to do three years ago, it was never on the radar. And it's, it's like it's opened up this desire and this creativity, and I'm very math and science-based, and, and I [00:25:00] think that as a pharmacist or as someone who has, I mean, chemistry is where I really thrive.

When you have all of those things, you feel like you lose creativity in the sense that society thinks we're creative. And I think what I've done is I have found a way to marry creativity with that math and science, kind of black and white background. And I want to grow that in any capacity, but I want to do it right.

I don't want to sacrifice the integrity of my brand or ingredients or what I have built already. So when I look at what the warehouse would be like, I would've never thought that I would have been doing this and it would have done what it's done in a year. So if anything, it's instilled confidence to say, not to sound too cheesy, but like you hear all these people like to dream big and you know, all these things, I'm an achiever.

And I just, would've never even thought I was doing this and here I am. And so I'm very open to what that picture might look like. Um, I think that, um, I mean, my husband tells me I've outgrown our house with this business. So that's the goal for a warehouse now that also means that employees will have to come.

So then I can start to have a little better balance. I have spoken to my boss about 2021. Uh, let's sit down and have an open, honest conversation. I actually love my job. I'm not looking to ever scale back at this point, but, or to quit my job, I guess I should say, but I have said we might need to look if that's a possibility of me going down to four days, Can we just talk about it?

Can we see if it's doable? Um, and then go from there, you know, so that's really been the only conversation I've had other than, you know, him being aware of what I'm doing. And when I'm at the hospital, I'm at the hospital, when I'm here, I'm doing this. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Why did you say you wouldn't quit your job or only go down to four days?

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: So for me, I am I'm white knuckling, those rains, right? I'm trying to manage a bunch of different things in my life at once. So a little background for me to take on employees was a big kind of loosening up of, of, of that control and hiring the right people, hiring the right drive, the right consistency, the right, um, attention to detail.

I've got those girls and they believe in the brand, they believe in the growth. All right. So that's, that's the first baby step, right? The second baby step for me would be. To go down at a conservative level. I am an aggressive go for it type. I mean, that's what I'm doing with this company. However, I'm also wanting to be very smart and what that looks like.

The good thing is that I have a pharmacist degree and am licensed to fall back on always, always, always. And I CA and I count that actually as a blessing, but to go from what I'm doing to just completely cold Turkey and going into this number one, pharmacy is what got me here. Dance with the one who brung ya.

Yes. Seeing what got you there. Right? So that honestly is what got me here. And I will not turn my back on that, but what that means for me is eventually I would love to be. One day, every couple. I mean, I would love to be a PRN employee at some point, but that all depends on the growth of this company. So I want to scale it, right?

I don't want to scale too fast, too aggressively while I'm taking this down. It's like a, you know, it's a balancing scale. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It's not because you love pharmacy so much that you couldn't leave it. You know, I do 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: love it. I love it because, because the thing is, I was actually going to vet school when I was in my undergrad and getting a BS in psychology.

I was wanting to go to vet school and I was wanting to actually be a one leg surgeon. I rode horses competitively, um, for years and I wanted to go and I wanted to. Save all the race horses legs, right? Don't you just shoot them. You don't have to. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I ain't no, Jackie, I I'm just past the 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: size limit. Just passed it.

I grew up on a very large family farm. I grew up in a metaphor of a 5,000 acre family farm, and I grew up riding my whole life. Um, so I'm a very big country girl at heart. I wanted to go to school, right? And for VAT and I would be in school for 18 years, 18 years. And in that 18 years, I would be in so much debt.

I would end up hating what brought me there. I'm 

Mike Koelzer, Host: just teasing about the horses. They don't 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: shoot them. Do they? Of course they do. Now. They just put them down humanely unless you're out on the farm. And maybe they might shoot. But I mean, it still happens. There's a lot of things that happen behind closed doors, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: But you wanted to say.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Well, it was more of, you know, that competitive edge of, of, of, of an athlete. And I loved the intricacies of what that entailed. And so long [00:30:00] story short, I went and shadowed a vet. When I was still in undergrad. She is the one who taught me. She said, don't hate what ultimately your love was to bring you here.

And she talked realistically and logistically about what the profession looks like. And I was so grateful for it. Um, and so I, I was just like, I've built my entire, you know, childhood at that point, wanting to do this. What does this look like for me? And I ultimately settled on pharmacy because, uh, I love molecular breakdown of anything.

And so at that point, you know, 13 years ago, forms, he looked at. Then it does now. All I knew was the facility, hospital and retail, and, you know, it was insane what they would give you to go to pharmacy school. Um, and so I was like, well, good God, of course, pharmacy school. And I get, and I get to look at drugs and molecular P you know, I'm a total med chem nerd.

And I was like, well done. And so I went to pharmacy school and got through it. So I think I'm loyal, so that's why I would never want to give it up. But when I say give it up, I mean, I'm just as burnout at times as anybody else. Who's a pharmacist? Pharmacy is a tough career as any health profession career is, um, we're the first ones to call when you need something.

And we're the first ones to call to blame, you know? And I S I mean, I see that in the hospital, and I think that pharmacists are the most accessible healthcare professionals that don't get. Pay that homage that they offer, whether it's retail or hospital. And we're just kind of like forgotten about, I'm not saying that I would ever not give it up, meaning I'm full-time as a pharmacist.

And full-time if my company that I have grown from blood, sweat, and tears, and a lot of exhaustion grows to a place that is sustaining the life that I want for me and my family, of course, that's going to take over my life, but I would love to steal at this point, they working one day, every couple of weeks as a pharmacist, I don't ever want to forget that knowledge base that brought me there.

All right. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: First of all, the horses. I'm back on that. Now let's talk about horses. It's probably more humane to shoot them. Don't you think? Cause that's gotta be a hard comeback. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Yeah. I mean, so if you're talking about shooting them or 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Just shooting them or rehabbing them or a vet who wants to rehab them, wouldn't it be better?

And I'm all for animals and stuff. You know, I eat them. Not just kidding. No, I'm all for

I'm all for animals. I'm just kinda like picking at you now, but it'd be easier on the animal. There's a reason why they shoot horses. It's not just because they're not valuable anymore. Is it? Or is it because that it would be such a hard comeback? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: A couple of things. That's why I wanted to get into that specialty because I wanted to.

Do exactly what y'all wanting to change 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it. Even if it was a challenge you wanted to do that. Yes. And then the other thing about vets is you have to buy those gloves that go all the way up to your shoulders. If you know what I mean, 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: right. Exactly what you mean. I've worn those gloves plenty of times growing up on a farm, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: But I can't have any fun.

It was fun in the winter. It might be okay. But 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: You know, when it comes back to the horses, you're absolutely right. Like there's an elimination tactic or there's a rehab tactic. So when you rehab a horse and you rehab a, let's say a race, a racetrack course. It doesn't mean rehabbing them to be in a race shape again, that, that, that, that, that is very dominant.

The rough type of stuff. They can be rehabbed to just be a horse, to be a horse. And horses are cathartic for a lot of people. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of rehab in therapy that is studied and proven to be wonderful for people. So that's one piece of rehab. There's also a piece of rehab to have them at stud you know, there's a lot of horses and, and that's what you really hear now as someone who watches races is that if someone had an injury, they will rehab them to just be staying a stud or a mayor.

You know, I have a 

Mike Koelzer, Host: little cottage, 30 minutes north of grand rapids. And, um, my sons, we were fishing for the first time and we caught a, like a bass of some sort and they didn't want to just. You know, suffocate or whatever like that. So we heard that you can hit it with a tool, you know, like. In fact like a screwdriver, you know, so my son's got one of these like dollar store screwdrivers, a little bit bigger probably than an eyeglass screwdriver, but not a full fledged, you know, good screwdriver.

And they probably whacked this fish on the head probably 150 times. So talk about torture and humane. That's where my horse, you know, that's why I'm wondering [00:35:00] about, we should have just shot the fish. Alison you talk about when you're 38, you start taking care of your skin. I'm going to call BS on that.

What does that mean? I love women. I've got five daughters. I've got a wife. I've got a female dog. I love women. I don't know any women that say they didn't take care of their face before they were 38 years old. When I 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I mean taking care of it, I used to be a sun worshiper. That's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: bad. Yeah. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I mean, I'm from the south.

If you can't hear it in my accent, we go to the beaches and we lay in the sun. And so when I can't do that, right. So when I say take care of my skin, it's not about just looking younger. It's really about improving the health of your skin. And it's a total saying, you know, it sounds salesy, but until I got into this kind of company, It is our largest organ and we completely take it for granted.

And so that's, that's part of what the education is that I like to give women and to build those relationships and to like instill this education on them, that, you know, we are in this society of Botox and, um, you know, and in surgery and I am not throwing shade at that when I'm saying is age gracefully, that my, my mantra and mission is age gracefully, but while you're doing it, don't just look good.

Like I really want people to improve the nutrition and health of their skin. So that's what I focused on. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You're not attacking me for using Botox, but you're saying there are other ways. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Absolutely, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: absolutely. That makes sense about the sun where you still were used. You probably weren't doing as much sun stuff, but are you saying that even through your thirties, you weren't maybe watching your skin as carefully and so on?

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Yeah, I mean, I would put on sunscreen maybe, maybe just on my face when I went to the beach and I mean maybe once, you know, That kind of stuff. I mean, you know, you're at the beach, you want to relax and it was just not something I was focused on. So I really think it was just more about bringing the attention to the focus of, I have a daughter now, you know, I want to take care of her skin because as a mother, that's my most important job.

And I was like, well, my God, what am I doing to my skin? And so then I was like, you know, I'm grateful to have good skin. Um, I haven't battled some really tough things and concerns and issues that a lot of my customers have. And, and I love to help them through that. But for me, it was more like, let me take care of what I've got and let me improve the nutrition to it.

That's really what it started for me as 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Alison, you did this last year. Did you have another? Business ideas leading up to this where you also open to a business a 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: hundred percent. No, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: really? You mean you, you were like, I gotta find something I'm going to make it. You didn't have any business inclinations, 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: not one, not even 1%.

I'm not talking about this. No, nothing. I had had a couple of people and more family members approach me and say, Hey, as a pharmacist, not at your own pharmacy one day. And I was like, no, I don't, I don't, I what's crazy. And I think this is probably, I mean, I think as people, we should always be growing and like, Figuring out new things about ourselves.

And that's a new thing for me in the past couple of years, honestly. And not one even grain of sand percentage. Did I ever think about being an entrepreneur? It was something that actually scares me a little bit because I like to know where my quality of life is coming from. That's equated to.

That's financially. I like to be financially aware of what's going on. That's just who I am. So this is, this is crazy, really when it comes to the business and finance side. For me, I think about it a lot, actually. I'm like, I don't even have a piece of me that thought about being an entrepreneur, a business owner, or having these crazy ideas about I'm going to make it.

I'm going to create my name. Yes. I'm an achiever. Yes. I'm someone who likes to put their name on the mark, but it was more of, let me just be a really great pharmacist. I want to be a really great mother. I had a daughter. I want to take care of her skin. Well, my God, I need to take care of my skin. And it started with this one serum and I was like, I can make that, like, why am I paying $150 for that?

Why are people? So, not that they're marketed to in a way that is the higher the cost, the better it is. And that's not the case, you know? And so my goal is to really give them things, to improve their skin that are accessible and cost, but accessible to anyone, but they build a relationship with the product.

But with the maker, I know that I know what I'm talking about, I know what I'm talking about. I can [00:40:00] talk you through this, let me help you through it. If you trust me, that's really where it started. I think it started with relationships for me. You would 

Mike Koelzer, Host: never have described yourself as creative.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: So it's funny you asked that I was creative, right? So it depends on what you think creative is. I think that there are different definitions of creative. My mind, I think of creativity as art, right? That's just for, for, for, for good or bad. I think of creativity as arts and poetry and music and drawing and all these kinds of things I used to be.

Love art. I loved art. I wanted a couple of little art competitions when I was younger, you know, and it was, you know, young, like this is like eight or under, you know, and I loved, loved drawing and painting, loved it. And something happened and it was in that early age. It's not like a trauma or anything. It was more like something happened where a gear switched in my head.

And I think I know when it was, but not the actual moment. I wanted to be a Marine biologist. I, before in, see Marine biologist is where it started. And then it went into the vet. When I became a competitive horse woman, um, I wanted to save all the whales and dolphins. I wanted to save them all. I want it to be not even an oceanographer.

I wanted to be Marine biologist. I know as a child, what that means is very different from what it truly means. It's a lot of research. I was just thinking I was going to swim with the whales and dolphins and, you know, and say, I remember this so vividly, there was a point. And there was one night where I, this sounds so crazy.

So you might want to cut this out. I don't know. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Usually this is a part of don't cut 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: out. No, I was holding, gosh, how old was I? I wasn't even old enough to like to wear makeup, but like, this is when you're old enough to like to play in her mother's makeup. Right. I was like six or seven and I had this little tiny sample size of blush when 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I was a kid though, they called it Rouge 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Rouge.

Well that's because it was cream. You know what Rouge is today? Rouge is taking your lipstick and rubbing it on your cheeks and rubbing it in Rouge, blushes, the powder blushes, the powder, but Rouge is a blush that you put on your cheeks, but it's in a cream form. And so I remember having this little travel size blush and I was sitting there and I think I had just read or like seeing someone on TV, you know, as a kid or someone at the whales and something about, um, saving the planet and something about harsh chemicals.

I don't even know what. And I was sitting in there and I was just picking apart this blush and looking at like the color filaments in it and thinking, where does that come from? Is that good? Is that bad? I mean, this is so crazy, but what is that? And I was like, you know, you didn't have Google back then. I was like, I'll go to my encyclopedia Britannica and start on Rouge slash blush.

And let me see, like, how it is made and what is it, what's in it. And does that hurt animals? And so I just remember starting that, you know, And, um, and so I think that that creative edge, somehow in that piece switched for me to where I started to focus on the, how it's made, like how it's made the, the mechanical pieces of things.

And somehow it overtook that creative piece. This company is taking all this science and this pharmacy background and chemistry background that feeds that mechanical piece that makes me tick. I create everything I have and I've created a lot of things that don't work. I don't take a recipe that someone gave me, like it is a lot of sitting in, piecing in.

I've made some disgusting things, some horrible things. And then I create something amazing with active ingredients that works great. And I see an effect on people's skin. And so it marries that creative edge. I think your 

Mike Koelzer, Host: chemistry and psychology and then into pharmacy. Would you have labeled that? Was any of that creative when you were doing it or did you feel it was almost the opposite?

You were kind of spitting back 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: stuff. I saw those as, as very, um, very black and white, uh, math and science type things. Yeah. So. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: At 40, this was your destiny to find this creativity in this business. I'm not 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: trying to be like woo. Out there. Like, I truly feel like I'm, I'm coming into a full circle moment for myself.

I'm very grateful for 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it. Yeah. So while you thought you were finding something good for your skin and for your daughter, what was happening is your creativity side of being this little girl with the art and stuff, but then you got deep into it and now you're finding your art again. It's definitely not lost on me.

So Alison, your [00:45:00] love of the people and love of the product and your natural charisma is going to take you in the line of not only being like this leader of this big company, but you're also going to be the face of this company moving forward. Now, here's the question that you have to ask yourself. And like five years from now, you're going to be basically in meetings with four or five people.

And then you're going to be spending half your time with the photo shoots and being on the today show and being on QVC. And then, you know, medical wise, you're going to be there with Dr. Oz talking about this stuff, and then you might even be on, um, who's the ball, Dr. Phil. You might even be on his, with your, with your psychology degree and stuff like that.

My point is this is going to really start moving fast. And the question you'll have to ask yourself is, do you just go with all that. You know what I mean? Because pharmacy's out of the question, because that ended in 2022, this is 20, 25. Now, do you do all that? And then say, yeah, but I'm going to force myself to do these certain things or do you jump out of the business before it gets that big and sell it and repeat what you're doing now, because you loved your kitchen days so much, you know, that kind of thing.

What do you do when this gets huge? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Slash hates thinking about this exact thing, because I do this a lot like am, um, and those one to 2:00 AM moments, you know what I mean? Um, I mean, I, listen, I'm sitting right now in my dining room and you can't even see what I'm looking at and I've taken plenty of pictures to remind myself of where I came from.

That is one 

Mike Koelzer, Host: thing, what are we looking at a boxes or 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: you're looking, you're looking at, um, shelves of raw material, um, finished product, um, packaging, um, orders on the table on each side of this laptop that you and I are talking about, um, that are going to be packaged tonight and labeled and shipped out.

Like it's, it's all, it's all consuming in this room. Um, and I take pictures of it to remind me always. And, and I, I came from a really wonderful mother and father, they. Have taught me to never forget where you come from. And that is something that I will instill in my child. And, and I think that that is a life lesson for it.

Doesn't matter where you go does not matter. And I think that a lot of people lose that. And for me, I, that is something that is at the center of who I am. So when it comes to a company, this is where it's very much a catch 22. For me in these conversations. I was saying that I think about at night, I'm an achiever.

And usually that either implodes or their state going up the next best thing, and that could be anything. It doesn't just mean growing a company. It could be you're the best. Mom, you're the best pharmacist. You're, you're the best looking person 

Mike Koelzer, Host: in the room. That's the honor that I take now, but I'm just in my office by myself when my Labrador comes in, she's going to win.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: But that, that for me personally, like I can only speak from where my mind is, is that I know now that I'm very well aware through the psychology and, and, and awareness of, of what this lens is that I see people through in myself and how my, my actions is that this is who I'm programmed to be moving up, still moving up.

I don't think that moving up is always a good thing. If you're not aware and try to stay some sort of grounded in that, what does that look like? It's different for everybody. And I think that is what I will do consistently. I try my best to be aware of, to always have a pulse on, because that's how you keep reinventing yourself as you get older.

I mean, you and I are not meant to be the people we are right now in 20 years, we should ideally be more open, better, more rounded, deeper 

people. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: The only thing that's going to be open in 20 years for me is my casket at my viewing. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: When I think back like that story, I just told you about being a little girl.

And I remember where I was, I was sitting in a closet in my house, you know, on the ground, this little blush and, um, And I think I just lost it for a long time. Because I focused on myself personally, what I thought math and science was. And now I've come full circle. Like you said, that's where my heart always is. I always want to have a piece of the creative edge of whatever this business looks like.

I want to create. That is where I'm happiest. Um, the people around me that have [00:50:00] seen this just in a year, um, that are usually, you know, close friends and family, but they see the passion I have and they see me like in my element, as I'm creating, they're like you were meant to 

Mike Koelzer, Host: create, let me get clarification on this.

When you say create though, could that mean in four years, you're creating your corporate board and how and how well you treat those people and then you're creating what you want to paint on the side of your corporate jet. I mean, you're not just talking about creating. Formulas. You say you want to be creative in the process.

If you're me, once you create, you might want to move on. Once you get the jet painted, you might want to move on to some other project. Is that right? 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I think that all of that is open to interpretation because like I said, I don't know what this will look like in four years. I know what it looks like now.

I know what I would like for it to look like, and it's going to look completely different than I even think I want it to look like then. And I think that there are going to be times where I'm really going to have to pull those reins back. Like I said, I keep saying these horses. It's so funny. I'm just realizing I have a lot, a lot of horse analogy, but it's true.

Like, there's going to be times where, because I am this steady, I'm growing my arms going up where you can go too fast and literally lose everything that was the site and the purpose for why you started something. But as long as it's a creation, that makes me feel fulfilled. That's really what it is. And right now fulfillment for me is literally.

Three beakers at tiny little scale, measuring engrams and mixing some 

Mike Koelzer, Host: stuff up. What would be a really cool day for you? You'd wake up. What would you do? Where would you go? How many people would just see? What kind of decisions would you be making? When would you come home? Explain that day to me. 10 years from 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: now.

All right. So I'm about to be 40. So let's say I'm turning 50 and at this particular moment, what again, to each his own right. She's owned. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You're the one that likes to go up to the shoulder and a horse. Me, not so much. I've never tried it. Maybe I would enjoy it. I think we've got the point across to each zone.

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: It's being able to wake up and not be rushed in the morning to sit down and have breakfast with my family. That is a foreign thing. And let me enjoy a great cup of coffee. Okay. So then it is getting to the barn and riding horses and not being on a time crunch to ride horses, but probably bringing my daughter along to teach.

That is a piece for me. And it's not just going to a barn where I'm boarding a horse. It's on my own land. There are cathartic pieces for how I grew up. It definitely ties into me as an adult. Um, after that, it's having a really awesome lunch with a friend that's a long lunch, like a good lunch.

I'm a foodie. I love to try new places. It'd be a new place every day after that it would be created, it would be whatever it takes in this business. And let's say, I've got a warehouse full of workers. It would be going. And checking in on everybody, what can I help with? What can I have my hands on those types of things after that?

Let's say it's a Friday. Okay. I want to have a place where I go to retreat and it looks different for everybody, for me, my husband and I, before we had our daughter. And before I started this company, big travelers, it's not, it's not relaxation. I don't relax. Okay. I don't sit well for me, it would be going to where I am constantly in all, whatever that looks like and an all over on that.

So my brain is still appreciating where I am now when I run into the United States. But for me, that is Africa, Bali, and Italy. Those are the places I've been that had literally consumed me with all at this point in my life. So I would love to be able to have not the, not have a place there. I'd love to have the freedom, the freedom, the financial freedom, the time, freedom, the guilt, freedom, everything that comes with that freedom to go to be an Aw.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So that business part is taking up like three hours. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: And to do that, that means that you have grown it and like that creative edge that you're talking about, it has morphed into a different piece of creativity. Right? So it doesn't look like I'm back in the lab and I'm mixing. And that's why I said, I really still want to have a piece of that 10 years from now.

And a piece of that could be once a month, I'm there all day with the chemist that is mixing the products that are created. And they're like, Hey, I had a cool idea about this. I'm like, well, let's look at it. Like I want to create, I want my brain to be still flowing in that manner. You know, and in discussion with those people.

So, yes, I still want to be like having my [00:55:00] finger on that in a lab . It looks different. I don't know what the timeframe would be. Maybe once every couple of weeks, maybe once a month. But I think it's more the freedom, the freedom of waking up with being able to breathe in the morning, because I don't know that feeling when I get up and it's going on.

It's not new. That's how I've been my whole life. Uh, assuming 

Mike Koelzer, Host: they didn't need you, you wouldn't desire to have any communication with the business to like noon. You don't have a need to get up and immediately jump on 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: that stuff. Well, I mean, it's funny that you say that I don't have, I don't have the desire.

Right. But the thing is, I'm an autopilot. I go straight to that. So the minute I get up, I'm literally, you know, I don't know how to do that. And so I think a piece of like, what you're asking me is to actually be at the place personally, to have let go of that in the morning. I mean, I've been 

Mike Koelzer, Host: at the business for, you know, back and forth to college and different jobs, but basically I've been at the pharmacy for, you know, 40 years.

And so when Margaret and I talk about retirement, it's like, I don't know what the hell I'm going to want to do. I mean, I've been so used to getting up and having the first. Two hours of my day, just really creative, just thinking of business stuff. And I love that part of the day and, you know, being on the computer and things like that.

And, and at the same time I complain about it. You know, that I'm, that I have to do that, but I have no idea you're kind of in the same boat. You don't, you do that now and you dream about not doing it, but it'd be interesting to see if you'd still want to do it right. Then I let go of it. And what you want to, maybe 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: not.

That's actually a really, I mean, that's a pertinent question to ask because when I say I want to do these things, like what I want to do, I want to get up and have, you know, a breakfast where I'm enjoying my family and then I want to go, you know, ride horses and then you have a nice lunch. And then I, and then I start to really dive into my business.

Piece of wanting that is to actually be at the place to accept that. And, and you don't know what you don't know. I know what I want to do. Same for you. We don't know what we don't know. We don't know what we would do in retirement, because for instance, when I go on trips, let's, let's take, for instance, before, you know, you have kids and then vacations are really, you're just traveling.

You're, it's not vacating, you know? And, um, and, and let's say you stay gone really for a week. It used to be that we were going for like two to three weeks. Now I'm still the same person, but now I've, I've kicked it up a notch, being a mom and, and owning a business. But I still, even then, even before all this stuff, I didn't know how to.

Like Woosah until about four, three to four days in, I'm not a sit on the beach typer. I'm not a, um, go in the minute. I'm not a staycation or I do not staycation do not give me a day off and expect me not to literally make it the most. Aggressive efficient day. You know, I, I don't, I don't know what that's like to staycation.

I appreciate people that are like that. So for me, we'd be going on these two or three week long trips, and I didn't know how to relax per se, which for me means to let go of the things that were hanging on my to-do list and the things waiting on me until three to four days in. So personally, I think 10 years from now I will be able to do these things.

And I'm outlining for you is really more or less to be the person who is accepting that mentally and your sanity wise and your relaxation laws, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: kind of the place you want to be, kind of a place you think. You want to be and kind of the person you think you want to be, but you may not be, you don't know, you have to leave your options open, but you 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: may not be through a lot through a lot of self-reflection and through a lot of growth and a lot of like introspection, you can get there, but if, if you let like your autopilot of whatever our personalities are take over, you really don't get there because you're never dialed into how you grow 

Mike Koelzer, Host: into that.

Let's say retirement. My goal would be to be at a point where I have a lot of options. I don't know who I am really, because I've never had the freedom to, to have that pressure 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: off. That's a very truthful statement in a large statement, you know, we. 10. I feel like we're getting way into psychology here, but I love this.

I mean, because it's so, because it's true. And as a society in Western civilization, we are built on commerce building money, you know, growth achievement, just like all the things I just said, but we lose sight of the things that grow you as a person. And you, you actually take for granted, you get one chance to do it.

Like you will get one life. And, um, [01:00:00] I'm very well aware of this. Like, I'm not great at this, but I'm aware there's a lot of things right now. That I am. I battle personally in, um, you know, certain things I want to do or certain things I need to handle, but I'm not giving it the time to handle. Cause I'm over here that hamster on the wheel spinning it, you know, out of control.

Um, so I think that that's really true that for you to say, that's a big statement. I appreciate the honesty for you to say, I want to have a lot of options because I truly don't know who I might be at that place that you're not alone. There's so many people that are like that, but don't even know that that's who they are.

They don't even know that they don't know who they are because they have been in this cycle for so long that when you take the cycle away, it terrifies the hell out 

Mike Koelzer, Host: of a lot of people. Well, it does. Yeah. And you, and you see that people drop dead a lot of times after they retire. Okay. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: Some European countries, they were.

Their work day might be a couple of hours. And then they take a long lunch and drink a bottle of wine and take a nice nap. And then they wake up and enjoy their friends and they might open their business back up and they might not. But the thing is, they find pleasure in the daily quality of their life.

I think that as our society, we tend to. Swing the opposite way. And I want to, I'm not saying I want to have lunch and have a bottle of wine every day and take a nap. I mean, it sounds great, but I want to be to the place where I'm just like you, I want those options. And I want to know that I'm at the place where I can take a breath and appreciate the moment I'm in.

And if you 

Mike Koelzer, Host: go online and look at trends of people, what they do, you know, besides some people like Colonel Sanders or something who started this when he was 65, you know, he started Kentucky fried chicken, besides him, most people follow a pretty similar pattern. So. 40 around right on that pattern. And when you get to the ripe old age of 54, you'll have a little bit clearer projection maybe, but then again, I dunno what the hell I'm doing.

So 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I feel like every 10 years, for me personally, I'm doing a re-invention and I don't know for everybody it's different for me. I think it's a 10 year pattern that I'm seeing so far. Um, but my gosh, I mean, I wouldn't, if I would've married half the people I was dating when I was in my twenties, one of us would probably be dead in a ditch somewhere, you know?

So it's just a perspective change. And so you have a perspective that is completely different from mine, and I'm so thankful for it because you can impart questions for people and, and, um, and experiencial, you know, statements and advice and things like that to help people. Change their perspective when they get to that place.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, Alison, congratulations on things. Thank you, Mike. 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: I've really enjoyed 

Mike Koelzer, Host: talking to you. This is a really exciting, I'm glad I had a chance to get you in the first year, instead of you, maybe not being able to fit me in coming up here pretty 

Allyson Brennan, PharmD: soon. Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate things and take care.

Thanks.