How Passion Ignites Growth | Jerrica Dodd, PharmD

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[00:00:12] Mike Koelzer: Well, hello, drew Rica. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for 

[00:00:15] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: having me. It's my pleasure to join you today. 

[00:00:17] Mike Koelzer: Great to have you on the show. Hey, for our listeners that haven't come across you yet online. Tell us who you are. 

[00:00:23] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: So I am Dr. Jerico Dodd. I am a pharmacist of 21 years. I have a Pharm D from Florida, a and M university in Tallahassee, Florida.

I also have a masters in pharmacy administration from the Ohio state university, and I have a master's degree in applied pharmacoeconomics. Uh, the concentration was applied pharmacoeconomics from the University of Florida. And I have spent the majority of my career after completing my hospital residency at Ohio State and spent the majority of my career in the pharmaceutical industry.

I had a very short, uh, position as a hospital pharmacy manager. But the last 17 years of my career were spent in the pharmaceutical industry until August of 2018. 

[00:01:21] Mike Koelzer: Wow. You've been around a little bit, a little bit. Um, those, those masters you talked about. Did those coincide with each other, as far as you didn't take those at the same time, those were two separate 

[00:01:36] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: ones.

Yes. The first master's program that I completed at Ohio State was in conjunction with an Ash P accredited residency program. And that was a combined program of 24 months. It's two years, but we can easily count down 24 months. So, uh that's and that residency had a concentration in administration though.

There was a clinical component to it as well. And then my last degree, I completed well over 10 years later at university of Florida. So they were not conjunct. 

[00:02:16] Mike Koelzer: What possessed you to say, I'm going to go back to school after 10 years. That was for, um, was that let's see applied economics.

Pharmacoeconomics: how do you decide after 10 years? 

[00:02:29] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Well, I have been working in the pharmaceutical industry and I saw that there was a discipline within the industry of outcomes, research outcomes, medical liaison. I was a medical liaison in the industry for the majority of the time I was there for 15 of those 17 years.

And so with that, 

[00:02:50] Mike Koelzer: I got it. I got, I, I got interrupted or else I'll lose this. You are a liaison for what? For, for the, for a co a liaison makes it sound like a go-between between what and what were you the 

[00:03:04] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: golden? Sure. I was a liaison between the pharmaceutical company that I was working for and the medical community be it, um, uh, physicians, nurses, other pharmacists at community or academic institutions.

And 

[00:03:22] Mike Koelzer: this, this, this company manufactured drugs. 

[00:03:26] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes. I worked for several companies. I worked for Eli Lilly. I worked for Bristol Myers Squibb for a very short time. I worked for GlaxoSmithKline. I worked for Biogen IDEC then now Biogen. But, uh, at the time I was there, it was Biogen iDeCK. Uh, and then I went and worked for smaller, uh, pharmaceutical companies like InterMune, which was purchased by Genentech at that time.

And then the most recent company that I worked for was health and therapeutics, which is a privately owned pharmaceutical company based in Lugano, Switzerland. 

[00:04:04] Mike Koelzer: All right. So this degree then you were where you were getting it, to benefit. Yourself or was it like something they needed to see certain letters behind your name kind of thing.

After this 10 year degree you went back with? 

[00:04:25] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Oh, so that was to help me understand how to communicate the science as well as health outcomes, if you will, or, um, pharmacoeconomics too. How do you sit in front of a payer, be it a medical director or a pharmacy director for a third party payer, be it the government or private industry.

How do you explain to them the value of your product? Not just talk science, not just talk price, which I didn't talk about. That was the commercial responsibility of the commercial team. However, how did you talk about the value of this product and how it affected life with regard to the quality of life?

Was there a survival benefit? Uh, because what healthcare payers do is they're looking at. An agent costs them and how to determine what that's really worth to them, to them, how our patients are getting better. Is there a survival benefit? So you're going to tell me that patients are going to live longer and all of that, how is it going to impact their budget?

And that depends on how many people they may have in their population with that condition. So there are lots of factors there, and that's definitely a very high level description, but talking more about the value and not just here's a drug and how much it costs, but what is the benefit of 

[00:06:01] Mike Koelzer: that? Did someone push you into that?

Or you're just like, Hey, this could help me. 

[00:06:05] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Well, it was just an interest that I had back when I did my I'm 

[00:06:09] Mike Koelzer: interested in things. I like it. After Reading it, I listed a one minute video on YouTube. I don't take a two year masters, but you just, it was, it was, you knew it was for you. 

[00:06:20] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes, actually I had my first pharmacoeconomics course when I was completing my masters in pharmacy administration, which by the way that program at the Ohio state trained you to be a hospital pharmacy administrator.

Um, so I had my first pharmacoeconomics class in that curriculum and I said, I really like this. This is interesting looking at the cost benefit analysis of a particular therapy or agent. 

[00:06:51] Mike Koelzer: Yeah. Would that help you? Is that a resume builder? I know you wanted to do this, but is that something someone would look at and say, all right, this opens up more avenues for you or not necessarily?

[00:07:07] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Um, I think that it did, uh, when I was in the pharmaceutical industry, it definitely did because I went from being a medical science liaison that covered therapeutic areas to a medical liaison that covered therapeutic areas. But with that special ability to be able to apply that medical knowledge to, like I said, looking at the value of that product.

Gotcha. So it was, it was like a next progression for me because I was in therapeutic MSL for nine years. And after I had done. Been at therapy and myself or several different, uh, disease states. However, that was something that I had an interest in and wanted to pursue and further microbes. And, and, and 

[00:07:55] Mike Koelzer: then they can't say to you, well, uh, drew Rica, that's all well and good that you know how to treat people, but this is not turning out how we needed as a company and all that stuff.

And then you can say, no, I know this, this is your value. This is the value proposition. Here's why it's good. And all that kind of stuff. You can, you could keep that, that story going and sounds 

[00:08:15] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Well, you understand that when you are in a position as a third-party player, there's a limited amount of.

Budget money. You cannot pay for all therapies for all people. Right? And so in having to make those types of decisions with a finite budget and having to understand, yes, it can be the greatest invention or the greatest development, but how does that really impact that budget? How does it impact my population?

Those are questions that I think about, so usually there's not a question of if the therapy or agent works or not. It's how well, and how is that going to impact my population, my budget, lots of things that 

[00:09:01] Mike Koelzer: have to be, yeah, there, there's just walking down the grocery store. There's a lot of great products and things, but the question is how did it, how was it valued against what's left in your bank account to me?

So, that goes up to the population or to the bigger population. Okay. So, um, so you're, you're now. Okay, now this is so interesting. I have to stop again and ask you before I even let you go any further. All these different companies. Is that common in your, was that common in your profession that you come in and do?

Because by the looks of you, you're only, you're only 29, so there's no way you could've been with thought, there's no way you could've been with all these companies, but is that common to like hit through all these, because you're doing certain things or were you moving quicker for any 

[00:09:52] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: purpose? Anytime I made a move in the industry, it was always for a position that was more challenging that offered a different level to grow with regards to whether my therapeutic knowledge grew with regard to my capabilities as a medical science liaison.

So it offered growth. Um, oftentimes it, and I've, I've had that question before, um, usually after about, um, Anywhere from two and a half to three and a half years, things changed generally in the pharmaceutical industry and reorganizations and things like that happen. And so sometimes that happened and I made a change because it was the best for me.

And, uh, and it was the best for my household. Um, there was a time when one company that I was with, uh, changed the territories and they, uh, did some layoffs. And when that happened, I retained my job, but my territory grew to a size that was no longer. Best for me to be able to work. And so I had to make a decision to move on.

So if it wasn't a step up in the science or the therapeutic area or the job just learning the job, then it could have been a condition such as that. But 

[00:11:17] Mike Koelzer: yeah, all of a sudden they, they switched that they flipped the job description to the next page or something like that. So, oh, that's really interesting.

All right, so you, you did this and then I heard you say 2018, but right now it's 2019 as we're talking. So what happens 

[00:11:33] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: at that point? So if you'll allow me to go back actually to 2015, I had. Gotten a position with a small company and, um, that position was eliminated. And so that they gave me an opportunity to decide that I wanted to spend a year, um, exploring doing some things that I don't normally get to do because I had been working.

And so that year it's amazing that things happen in line. And when they did that year was the year that my father was diagnosed with stage four lymphoma. He is a Vietnam veteran and was likely exposed to agent orange. And I remember the fathers the Friday before father's day when he got that diagnosis and they really didn't answer a lot of questions. He kind of sent them home and said, we'll talk to you further on Monday five months later, my mother.

I was hospitalized for triple bypass heart surgery. And she went into that surgery as my mother and came out almost seemingly like my grandmother and that the level of, um, cognitive function and dementia that resulted lasted for two years and five months after my mother, I had to have brain surgery. So in 2016 I had brain surgery.

And in all of those. Events and situations. I was an advocate, both for my parents because my mother could not definitely do and talk for herself with regard to talking with their healthcare practitioners. My father was totally stunned with his diagnosis. And then when I was in the hospital, after my brain surgery, I surely spoke with the healthcare team that took care of me as if I was their peer, because I am.

And I remember saying that at some point in their life and in a person's life, they're going to need a pharmacist. And I told my father that I was going to build something to help patients, to help advocate for patients being able to communicate with their practitioners. So once I got well, I went back to work.

If you will. And my health started calling again, not for the same circumstances that led to brain surgery, but my health began to call again last year. Well, in 2017, I had already started building my pharmacy consulting practice, which is called your pharmacy advocate. And in 2018, I made the decision when my health began knocking at my door again.

I needed to focus and make my priority, my health, and that it was going to require that I leave my job. So that was a very difficult decision because I had a great manager and I enjoyed my job, but I knew that I needed to make my health a priority. So I finished in the industry I'm October, August of 2018 and have been a full-time entrepreneur since.

[00:14:57] Mike Koelzer: Wow. Did that take. Faster because you were able to, then it 

[00:15:02] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: had to. Yes. And partly because I definitely was able to give more attention to it because I was working full time. And so it didn't have a divided attention. I'll also tell you that even from. Last August to this August. One of the things that happened that I surely didn't plan for and wasn't expecting is I learned how to do what I've been doing.

Uh, as I've been talking with you and sharing my story, and I've also learned, so I've done quite a bit of speaking. I do podcast interviews and do live speaking. And one of the things that I also learned is that there are a lot of pharmacists that are in the midst of the transition that's happening in our profession, especially those on the retail side.

But I would say that it's in more sectors than just retail and. Though it was not my plan. I have also begun building my coaching practice to coach women in pharmacy who are looking to make a transition. Pharmacists tend to be pretty analytical. And when things start to change, especially if they're out of our control, I listen and I read, uh, pharmacists comments about the industry and what's happening.

And many people seem to be so caught off guard. Oh my gosh, how could this happen to me? Why have I been there this many years? You know, why are my tech hours being cut, whatever. And I look at it as an opportunity to build the next phase to do something new. So oftentimes I say we have our back against the wall.

So I felt like when. Uh, when I was dealing with my health concerns last year, my back was against the wall because I'm trying to work, enjoy my job and, you know, take care of myself. However, my health is really beckoning that I pay it attention or I'm going to have something not so good happen. And so I felt like, oh gosh, I have to make a decision.

And I feel like that though, it's a different scenario. Often many of the pharmacists that we hear talk about the industry today, they feel that back against the wall kind of feeling right. And I think it's when, as you said, when you are in those situations and you have to do something. I think you give it more than when you have a job and everything's going well, and you think, well, maybe I'll do a little something on the side.

It's more of a hobby. Or when it becomes your bread and butter, you're at your major source of income. You give it all that you have. 

[00:17:58] Mike Koelzer: Yeah. Yeah. That's uh, that's so true. And um, sometimes it seems that, I mean, I don't wish ill will on anybody, but sometimes the things are, things are good enough. You don't, you don't make the leaps because leaps can be, um, dangerous.

I mean, they call it a leap. You don't always land on you. Don't always land on the other side. You know, it's like, it's like our industry I'm in, I own an independent pharmacy in town and things. Things have gotten very tight. I knew that 25 years ago when I bought it from my dad and I kind of looked at the projection of, of the slope kind of going down and I could have, I could have made a leap.

I could've made a leap, you know, 15, 20 years ago. And I, I, I love what I do. Um, I used to like it more because I could count more money. I seem to like counting money and it doesn't happen as much, but I could have, but, but you fall into it for me, it was more than good enough. I really enjoyed it. But, but, but people fall into, ah, why, why, why should I, why should I branch out?

Because I'm probably making more now and I probably have more job security than I would as an entrepreneur doing something else. But now with the, for our listeners that may not be. Up on this. There's been a lot of layoffs and store closings in the chains, which we've practically never seen before, right?

With 600 pharmacists being let go of Walmart and 200 Walgreens about to close and, and, uh, you know, maybe PillPack and Amazon coming up. And it's been a real shakeup more than I've seen in the last twenty-five years in the industry myself. But, um, things have always been good enough. And when they're good enough yet, especially if you come from an analytical mind of the pharmacist in most cases.

Good enough is good enough. Right? Well, now it's now, now the. The options. Sometimes you say, well, if I'm, if I'm making X and working X and this, and this idea I have might bring in like 0.2 X, it doesn't sound so good. But now if your X goes down to like 0.6 X of whatever that means in the industry, and then, you know, there it's closer between 0.6 and 0.2, then it was between X and 0.2.

You're I'm sure you're, you know, you're seeing that like I am, and that's an opportunity for you. I would think having more of these people interested in and trying to find out what to do and their back is up against the wall. 

[00:20:43] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: And you know, what I found is with the current coaching clients that I have, I've found that many have other dreams that the circumstances have caused them to think about pursuing.

I have a client that is building her own personal training business, and she is a pharmacist. I actually think they're all pharmacists. I have another one that is building a photography business. And so it's giving them an option, which sometimes I think we get so used to our routine. To veer away from the straight and narrow that we're walking down.

I think we were, I had someone call me and say, do you think it's crazy if I want to be an owner of a Chick-fil-A franchise? And I said, no, if that's your heart's desire, I think that we get one opportunity to go through this life. And I surely don't want to get to the end and look back and say, well, I wonder what would have happened, or maybe I should have, I want to look back and say I did it, whatever it was.

And so I think in America in general, we're talking about pharmacists if we don't dream anymore. No, we just, and I have people that talk to me and say why I've never thought about doing anything else. I went to pharmacy school and that's the degree that I have. And I just thought that it was going to always be a great profession and that things would never be turned upside down.

Like they are in some cases. And it's really interesting because then I have people say, well, I'm not really sure what I like. I, and I'm saying, well, I think it's important for you to take some time and think about who you are and what you like, because generally, if you can identify what it is that you like, what it is that you're passionate about, then you can decide if your next step is indeed going to be in pharmacy.

Or if your next step is, as I said, going to be a photographer or whatever else it is that you dreamt of building. 

[00:22:56] Mike Koelzer: Yeah. It's too bad.

I feel bad for myself at times for a lot of the pharmacists and I guess any profession where sometimes it seems that we're almost at a disadvantage because we were able to make choices early, relatively early in life. You know, we made the choice and we said, it's a good choice. And sometimes it's an expensive choice, but it's a choice and you slap yourself, pat yourself on the back.

And it seems sometimes that the people that maybe didn't make those choices don't have that narrow focus. That can be, um, a handicap at times because they say I didn't make a choice that I can do whatever the hell I want to do. You know? So, uh, tell me about your road into pharmacy. Was that, what, how did you end up going there?

Was that something you wanted to do? And, and I know you alluded to it a little bit just before we talked in the show and, um, It sounds like there was something going on there that maybe you, this is almost like you're like your own self coach. Like you're finally realizing what you're telling other people is true for yourself.

Tell me about that. 

[00:24:08] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: So when I was in high school, I had no desire or even knowledge of a pharmacist beyond going to the drug store to get to pick up medications for my grandparents and knowing that a pharmacist works there. I was interested in being a high school English teacher. I wanted to teach students how to diagram sentences.

I don't even know if they do that anymore. They do good. I think that's important. I wanted to teach students how to diagram sentences and we were going to read novels like I did in the 12th grade and have quizzes and discuss the themes from these novels. And I actually was the president of the future teachers of America back in high school.

And when I got there. Scholarship. I received a full scholarship to go to Florida A and M university. What do you know at 17 about what you want to do for the rest of your life? Right. I and I grew up in a family where my parents just made it very clear that their expectation was that you went to college.

They had not finished college. They had had some college, but they had not finished college. And so their focus was you have to go, they didn't get involved in what you should major in those types of things. Then they left that to me. So literally if you can imagine. Uh, I'm definitely dating myself. There was no internet, it was like a book, a hard copy catalog that you had.

And I said at 17 teachers don't make any money. I need to pick something that will allow me to support and provide for myself. So I flipped through the catalog and I thought something in the health field, no, to nursing, no to physical therapy. I think I'll do this pharmacy. And I closed the book and I would never suggest haphazardly picking a major like I did.

I never knew how much chemistry I had. Was involved. And so if you can imagine me semester after semester lamenting another chemistry class. However, I graduated pharmacy school, and I maintain my scholarships. So obviously I had to maintain the grades the entire time and became a pharmacist. And I will say that I feel like many times when I'm coaching, I'm secretly fulfilling that desire of being a teacher just in a different way.

Right. It's been a very rewarding career. And you know, one of the things that I share when I speak with pharmacists is that. In pharmacy school, they taught us to be pharmacists. And unless you were interested in having an independent pharmacy and building that business, when I came through pharmacy school, we had a class about that, but it wasn't really a big focus.

The focus was retail or hospital. And so they taught us to be pharmacists. Unless you decided to go that independent pharmacy owner route, they did not teach us to make money. And that's what I think has been one of the biggest lessons for me is learning how, and which is why I think so many in our profession feel disgruntled that things are changing.

So because ultimately we want to be able to provide for our families. We want to be able to provide, you know, the necessities as well as comforts of life. And when that is threatened, I think that's why we see some of the anger and anxiety and fear that we do because people ultimately, yes, may love doing what they do, but they're wondering how am I going to provide for my family and.

You know, you used to watch those talk shows on TV, maybe where people would have been in a particular career for a while. And then all of a sudden they woke up one day and they went and started, you know, baking cakes and now they have a world-class bakery. And I would always look at those shows and think, wow, That's amazing, like that they had the courage to do that and never thought that I would be in a situation where I would almost be forced because of my health concerns to do the same.

But you know, when we would look at it, I'm sure you would agree. When you'd look at those types of TV shows, you'd go, wow, that's amazing. I wish I could do something like that. They have a lot of guts. 

[00:29:00] Mike Koelzer: That's exactly where I am, and I think that, um, Kyle, I would do the same thing with like, you know, my, like let's say I have a brother, like in advertising, you know, or whatever.

And back then before the internet, and before that, I never would have imagined doing something like this, like talking and having a little podcast and so on. And, and uh, but back then, you'd be like, I wish I had, I wish I could have, or whatever showed up in. Things were too good. So you didn't, it's like they were too good for us, so we weren't pushed at all.

And, and I, I hate, yeah, I hate the thought of these challenges, but I love, I guess, Can we come out of it? I'm not sure if I love that more than the insecurity of not having the money, but see that there's that 

[00:29:52] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: balance, you know? Well, and that's the thing is that though you may have an employer. I think if we're really, really honest, I just spoke with a pharmacist yesterday who talked about her spouse, also being a pharmacist and that he worked for a chain that recently went bankrupt.

And so things can happen. So even if you have an employer today, you might not have one tomorrow. And so I believe that it can potentially give a false sense of security. Maybe not as volatile as it is to be an entrepreneur. But I would say that you probably would have to agree. Being an entrepreneur has been one of the best rides of your life, because you've learned one.

What you're made of you learned that your capabilities probably exceed more than you thought you were capable of. And the thing that I think about. Even having the degrees that I've had. And the experience that I've had is all of that was not for, not all of the transferable skills for how many years, 15 years in the pharmaceutical industry.

I spoke with healthcare practitioners, conveying information, whether they were healthcare practitioners, you know, practicing and seeing patients or whether they were healthcare practitioners that I transitioned into to be business people because they are working for third party payers. So there are many, in addition to our pharmacy education that we may feel like, oh my gosh, I invested all of that time.

I went to school for a total of 10 years. If you added up the six for the final three, two master's and then two for the third and the second master's. That's 10 years, however, I don't lament any of it. And it's all being used some way or another to do what I'm working on. Now, there are lots of transferable skills that came from that, that are being put into place now.

So I never looked back and went, oh, that was a waste, you know, because it wasn't, you know, after I finished my pharm D the two masters, there was no scholarship there. So I, but I still don't look back and go, oh, that was a waste. No, all of it was a building block 

[00:32:21] Mike Koelzer: back in my day, the pharmacy was a five-year program.

And, uh, I took seven because I had two years. I had a year that I went down to a seminary that I studied. Some theology philosophers did some different things. And, uh, I wouldn't trade that. You know, I think it improved my writing skills, my speaking skills, you know, different. Reading and things like that until.

It was pretty good until I got kicked out, you know, not to get kicked out, but, um, God's got some plans. He pushes us in, in her directions, but, um, 

[00:32:58] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I don't know. I believe we wouldn't go. 

[00:33:01] Mike Koelzer: We wouldn't go. And wouldn't be, we wouldn't have that chance of a greater happiness, I guess. 

[00:33:07] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: And if he didn't and we wouldn't go, and if he showed us all that was included, I think either the good, the ups and the downs, the goods and the bad, the good and the bad.

I think we wouldn't go either. Wouldn't go either. And so we wouldn't go either, we humans, we just have to kind of walk in blind faith sometimes because we want to know so much, so many people say to me, well, I want to do this, but I just don't know how. And I'm saying, you know what? You can not necessarily have the how from A to Z all planned out and laid out and then you just walk right through it.

It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you've heard people say, which is a scary thought. If you think, literally you've heard people say you build the plane while you're flying. Yeah. And sometimes that's how you do things, especially when you can't see a year down the road or three years down the road, and you're feeling your way.

The other thing that I learned in 2018. Which if you think about our normal analytical bent is to make decisions, make a decision and not be so fearful of if I make the decision, then what? Oh my gosh. What if it's the wrong decision? I literally. Decided that I have to be able to make decisions and move.

And if I find that I've made the wrong decision, then I change direction. Sometimes we want all the information we can possibly, I need all the facts. I need it, everything I need to know. And it just doesn't always work that way that we're going to have all the information you see. I went into pharmacy school and even though I had the information on what the curriculum was, I believe if I'd looked at it, I wouldn't have, I would have never gone, but I made a decision.

I walked forward. Yes. Ran into all types of chemistry. That was quite a surprise. Once I really realized what the curriculum consisted of. However, I made it, I made it, I still executed and I feel like I made the right decision. I didn't have, well, like I said, I had the information, but wasn't wise enough at that time to even look at it.

So sometimes in life we have to make decisions that paralysis of analysis or analysis of paralysis. It can, that in itself is a decision when we don't make a decision. And so that's true. That's certainly true. Sometimes we will sit and wait and try to gather more evidence, more facts, more information, and sometimes you have to make decisions and you don't have everything.

And then sometimes we have to make decisions and just have faith in what we know from our experience, the bidder, right. Facts and knowledge and information that we have to make the decision and we'll learn after you make it, whether it was the right thing or not. 

[00:36:08] Mike Koelzer: Yeah, that's, that's so true. And, and I think another, another one with the analysis, uh, paralysis is I think is the, when you do make that decision, I think make the decisions more quickly.

And then also, um, the saying that perfection is the enemy of good enough, because how many times do people not do something like, like I've been podcasting now for a couple months and. My first or second podcast, tech technology wise or junk, I was on this program just on my phone and I got into it because it was easier on this little phone app, but it was, it was junky.

It was dropping the calls and all that. And I thought you have it if I don't, if I don't do that and do it now and do another one Wednesday, another one Friday. And I learned, I learned and I learned if I don't do it, I don't get to this spot. And it's like, yeah, they're there. They're not as good with the technology.

And maybe some skills I've picked up. But if I, if I waited, I wouldn't be at this point, I'd still be back two months ago thinking about it. So you gotta just, 

[00:37:22] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: you gotta just go 

sometimes. 

Right. I 

talked to my coaching clients about not getting stuck in getting ready to get. Yeah. And I think that pharmacists are really good at getting ready.

So people will say, well, maybe I need to go back and get another degree, but it's not because they necessarily feel that that's what they truly need. It's because I can hide over here because we love knowledge. And I definitely, you know, I love, obviously I like to go to school too. Right. But if that's going to keep you from making a decision to move forward to whatever's next, because you're fearful or you don't know all the things that there are to know, it's very comfortable to get ready to get ready and to say, well, I'll just get another certification or another degree, but I would surmise whether a pharmacist is a BS pharmacist or a PharmD pharmacist.

They have the experience and the training and the knowledge to. Do whatever's next. And if additional training is required, I suggest getting it along the way, but it doesn't stop. Those who were saying, I don't know what to do. And what about health coaching? What about consulting? What about, because maybe you can start there and then keep going.

Because as I found out last year, most of what happened was not what I planned, the podcast interviews that I requested, the magazine covers that I was on. I didn't plan any of that. That was not my goal. It wasn't what I said, these coaching clients. Wasn't what I set out looking for. But you start just putting one foot in front of the other.

And I really do believe that when you're walking in the right direction, things will just. Open up they'll happen the way they're supposed to. You'll learn lessons, you'll make mistakes. I remember working with a vendor and realizing that this was not going to be a good outcome for both parties, both businesses.

And one of the most valuable lessons. One of the most valuable lessons I've learned on this journey is that when your values don't line up, that in itself can challenge the relationship. So it helped me understand that when I'm looking to work with an individual or a business or a vendor that maybe I don't get on the phone and go, no, what are your values?

Sure. However, I am understanding how to have that conversation to identify. Are we really, for the same things? Do we really want the same outcome or do we have the same values? And to me that was an expensive lesson to learn, but oh my gosh it was very valuable because it informed future conversations that I have with individuals or companies.

[00:40:31] Mike Koelzer: Yes. For sure. For sure. Yeah. The whole thing, I agree. Everything you said and the whole thing about moving, you know, I always think of, like, I always think of like a boat, you know, it's like if a boat sitting there and there's a rudder and you can turn that rudder or the steering wheel at any direction, but in, but you're better off, you're better off having.

The steering wheel, like 45 degrees in the wrong direction. And moving, once you move, you say, oh, I I'm, I'm headed the wrong way. And then you move it back and no wave comes and so on. And, um, yeah, you've gotta be doing that. And, and I, I was just thinking about, you know, the, the opportunities we have just sitting like in, in my home little office here, and you think my gosh, I'm talking to Eureka and, and I could, right now I could write a blog.

I could write from here. I could do a book. I could do something on YouTube. I could call somebody up, do some coaching. I could do a million different things. And, and the testing, um, Tim Ferris talks in his book the four hour work week about testing. And that makes sense. You could put a Google ad out and say like, You know, like, like we, in our daydream, we had to go, you, you and I, we had to go through four years until we found out something, you know, and now you can put like a Google ad up a and a different upbeat, and you can put different titles on it or say one, um, one I'm gonna cure your cancer.

And the other one says, I'm going to cure your heart disease and see which one does better. And three hours later, you know, your direction. It's like, you can go so fast. So you gotta be, you gotta be moving. It seen 

[00:42:20] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: our world today moves very fast and we have a vast amount of knowledge to try to sort through, simulate and understand.

And so that's another reason why that paralysis of analysis. It's not useful. 

[00:42:39] Mike Koelzer: I think pharmacists, I think we got well-trained. Solving stuff, but there was kind of like an answer there wasn't the correct answer was this drip rate of something or other, it was a problem, but there was only one answer. And I don't think we're real good at saying there's a problem, but maybe there's 10 different answers that are all right or they're all 

[00:43:00] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: wrong.

So, you know, and it's interesting that you say that because many times. I'll just say humans, we don't deal with ambiguity too well. And so oftentimes in entrepreneurship, when there isn't a right answer, if you will, there could be several answers. It depends on one. Who's asking the question and so ambiguity can really be an uncomfortable place, but I think being able to be comfortable with not having all the answers, being comfortable in situations where there's ambiguity, I think it's, and I remember learning that.

When I worked at GlaxoSmithKline, they gave us a little handbook on being a medical science liaison, or their version of what they called it in that job position. And I remember it said flexibility and ambiguity because things change all the time. And sometimes that's what upsets us is, oh my gosh, everything has changed.

I didn't expect that. I wasn't human and didn't really care for change. And so learning to be flexible, learning to deal in situations of ambiguity. I remember being in the industry and sometimes a direction would be given on one day to say, we're going left. And then next week someone would say, you know what?

I know we said, we're called left, but now we're going to go. Right. And it would be the person who would say, okay, you say go right. We're going to go. Right. That would do. And fare better than the one that would be like, what, what do you mean? You said left. Why? Just go, right. And not saying that you should never have questions about what you're doing, but understanding that at the level where that decision was made, I trust that, you know, this is the way we need to go, and this is who I work for.

So I'm going to go in the direction they say, go, 

[00:44:59] Mike Koelzer: We might be talking to the worst profession about AMA ambiguity. I can't say the word. We might be talking about the worst profession because in medicine there's typically the right drug, the right dose and all those kinds of things. And it's just something that we're.

I think 

[00:45:15] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: that the thing too, is that as you spoke of, we're used to solving problems that have one answer, finite answer, and you, and I know that entrepreneurship is not that way. And so when you're used to, for example, and this is not to qualify this for all pharmacists, but when you're used to, for example, reading prescriptions to find the era, the era and dosing, because your job is patient safety and making sure that you get the right drug to the right patient for the right reason and the right time.

So it's a little uncomfortable to walk in a journey of stepping out from everything, you know, because, oh my gosh, what if I make a mistake you're used to looking for other people's mistakes. So you'll find that sometimes people will have a level of perfectionism that you're like, wow, You have to, along this entrepreneurship journey, give yourself grace to fail.

I did a podcast interview yesterday and was asked, what do you do? How do you look at failure? How do you deal with it? Have you, have you failed? Yes, I have. I look at it as an, as an opportunity to learn. And oftentimes in leadership and entrepreneurship, especially when you're doing something that the mainstream, uh, group of people are not doing.

You're more afraid. And that ambiguity of, I'm not really sure if this is right, because if you fail, everybody will know everybody's watching, especially now in these days of social media. But I have decided that. I want to be able to say I tried. Yeah. I think it's more important for me to say. I tried, even if I fail, I have more respect for myself than to say.

I wonder what would have happened. 

[00:47:11] Mike Koelzer: That's exactly right. It's um, yeah, with the pharmacy profession, it's like not only. Get it right. They send auditors a year later and it's like, make sure you got it two years later to come up and say, you failed two years ago. I thought I'm used to hearing about my failures, like the next day and moving on, you 

[00:47:31] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Now, when I was in the industry, it was always, it's sometimes daunting when you're a new medical science liaison for a company.

And you're learning all of the science, all of the clinical trials and learning the new people, the new, um, physicians, nurses, pharmacists, that you're calling on. One of the fears that I would tell you most MSLs have is what if they ask me something, I don't know. And it's like, well, you haven't had a time, had enough time to assimilate all this information that you're learning for a new company, a new drug, a new therapeutic area.

So no one expects that you are a walking encyclopedia and that, you know, at all. But that's what if I don't know. And you learn, well, if I don't know, I'll find the answer and I'll get back to it. And so I think that that is one of the amazing skill sets of pharmacists is that even if we don't know, if some people say, oh, I want to do this, or I have a dream to do this, but I don't know how you talked about the age of the internet.

You can Google anything. And not that you want to Google, you know how to start your new venture necessarily independent only on that. But I'm confident about that. The information you need is there, or the people you need to be connected to either are already connected or you can get connected. And if they don't know, somebody knows someone who knows.

I believe that there's nothing new under the sun. So whatever it is. People are thinking about what they want to do, but they just don't know how there's either somebody to help you figure it out, or you can find the answer. I think that's not, uh, not knowing is not enough of a reason to just say, well, I'll just stay here.

Cause I don't, I don't know how to build that. 

[00:49:26] Mike Koelzer: And I think we come from a great profession and I can tell when people are not part of the pharmacy profession, because the pharmacists have always been at seems willing to help each other, whether it's an independent pharmacy sharing drugs or whether it's, you know, someone else sharing knowledge, I think we've always been real, real good at wanting to see all of us succeed in that regard.

Let me ask this of you. If someone told you right now that you could not do anything business-wise for any business improvement for a year, let's say you had a year sabbatical. How would you be spending your time? For a year, 

[00:50:08] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: a year 

[00:50:08] Mike Koelzer: sabbatical without improving the business. Oh 

[00:50:11] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: gosh. Just for 

[00:50:13] Mike Koelzer: me personally, whatever, you know, like, you know, what'd you, what'd you be sitting around watching TV traveling, would it be, would it be building a house?

I mean, what would you do if you had a year that you didn't have to worry about money and you couldn't, but you couldn't improve your business per se. 

[00:50:28] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I would spend that time doing a couple of things. One, I would volunteer. And so I would travel. I think the reasons that I would do those two things are one.

I love interacting with people and it's very rare that I meet a stranger. And so I love traveling because I like to talk to people who are also traveling and find out where they're from and what brings them, you know, to this part of the country or this part of the world. I also like to see how people live, because one, I think it gives perspective and a couple of ways, in addition to volunteering, seeing how people live and helping with regards to volunteering.

But when we, with regard to travel, It gives perspective when you see how people live, whether they live better, I'm doing air quotes right. Better than you or their living conditions are not as, as, as yours are. Yeah. It gives you perspective as to your place in the world. It gives you a perspective. I feel maybe what we're called here to do.

When we are interacting with someone who is less fortunate than us, it gives a lot of perspective of how blessed we are, how maybe one of the things that I'm here to do is to bless because I've been blessed to share because I have. I think that that can be accomplished in both traveling to other places in the world and the country.

And then also volunteering. 

[00:52:13] Mike Koelzer: What would you do volunteering in your year off? Would that volunteering be, uh, down around the corner from you? Or would it be fragile? 

[00:52:23] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I would say on my travels, I'm happy to volunteer wherever I can help. However, because I think that we have domestic needs and then there are definitely international needs.

Um, so, and I don't necessarily weigh one over the other. 

[00:52:41] Mike Koelzer: If you've got it. If you have a year, you might as well get both at the same 

[00:52:45] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: time. Right. So definitely traveling. Um, because what I know is that by the standards in the United States, many of us look around and say, oh, well, I'm not rich. And so definitely not rich, but when I left this country and went to many other places in the world, I realized that what is it?

What's the percentile that we're in, that we live better than the 

[00:53:10] Mike Koelzer: majority, the 2% or something like that. I don't know all those, I don't know all those things, but we're certainly blessed. And you see that as you, as you track. 

[00:53:22] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes, it gives a lot of perspective. I went to Tanzania or Tanzania as they call it in 2011.

And I was amazed at the poverty that I saw compared to what we consider poverty in the United States. But what amazed me even more was how happy people were with a thatched roof and a dirt floor. They were happier than someone who has luxurious cars and, and houses. And. Definitely a lesson to understand that happiness obviously comes from within.

And that amazed me 

[00:54:04] Mike Koelzer: what replaces that money sometimes like in yours, what you saw was not just the lack of money that makes people happy. But I think that there is a dependence on each other, if we're not going to make it through this day or we're not going to have any enjoyment unless we talk to each other and tell stories and bond and help each other and those kinds of things.

And so that's, I think what sometimes the, all of our riches can get in the way of maybe it's that we're able to, uh, separate herself from, from that, from that need of the human need of bonding. 

[00:54:39] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I think that. Traveling definitely helps you connect with people of this world and realize that there are more people who probably don't want to look like me and don't live like me.

And so to me, it's, it's almost like you're going and you're having a world history lesson in real time. I think sometimes, you know, we've talked quite a bit today about just the opportunity to jump, to take the leap analysis of paralysis. One of the things, and this is surely not to open up a conversation, a political conversation, and surely not to open up one on integration, but when we just look at humans in this world who tried.

To come to our country and be willing to die, lose their lives, to come do the jobs that you and I probably don't think about doing. And I think it's when I think of situations like that, um, I have not had to swim. My life's not been threatened, you know, um, all of those things to get to the opportunities that are just mine, just because where I'm, where I happen to be both, how dare I not take full advantage of the, the opportunities that I have when there are people who would die to have these opportunities.

[00:56:11] Mike Koelzer: Yeah, we certainly have, um, we certainly are blessed with, with the options. I mean, shoot, just having electricity to turn something, you know, turn something on. Um, we sure have that or I, I had to think of. I had to think of my son years ago, one of my son's years ago. And he said to me, dad, he said, when we die, he said, can we, can we go anywhere?

I said, anywhere you want son. And he's like, anywhere we want, you know, and I'm picturing that he's on a star riding to, you know, some nebular or something. He says, he said, as a dad anywhere, he said, I'm going to Florida.

[00:56:58] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I guess 

[00:56:59] Mike Koelzer: he's going to Disney world. So I guess, I guess here that if we could, if we can help somebody, um, you know, maybe, maybe just take up the computer and write one more email to someone today or make one more connection somehow. That's it just got to start by that, that you have to start moving right?

[00:57:19] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes. Yes. And don't be afraid to ask for help or ask for support or ask questions. Um, it's really tempting when we feel that we have arrived with regard to our education and our knowledge. And I say that the more, you know, you learn the more you don't know. And so it's, if you're not growing and learning, I feel you're dying.

There is no state of in-between. So you're either growing learning or you're dying. And so I look at these times as an opportunity to continue learning more so that I can continue growing. And so who I'm supposed to be 5, 10, 20 years from now. 

[00:58:04] Mike Koelzer: Yeah. It's hard to look out that distance, but, um, but that's why.

That's why, you know, God has given us people like you and people who have been through the, um, you know, been through the, carrying their cross a little bit and, you know, and you can look out and see some it's kind of the old thing. While if I've always said that about, I think my kids do that to me.

They say, if dad can do it, I can do it. You know? So, so we all need, we all need each other to, to show that it can be. Right. Well, Dreek, a pleasure talking to you. You 

[00:58:38] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: too. This has been great. I appreciate you 

[00:58:40] Mike Koelzer: having me. Yeah. I wish you all the best. How could somebody, um, how could someone follow up with a question or something with you?

What's the best way to maybe see, learn a little bit more about. 

[00:58:52] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Sure. So the best way to connect with me is either on my website, which is your pharmacy advocate.com. There's a contact form or contact tab there where you can enter your information and a short message. Or as we do today, you can connect on social media.

So I'm on Facebook at your pharmacy advocate or my Facebook account is to Rica El L DOD DOD D and Instagram Sharika speaks, or your pharmacy advocate again, and then definitely on LinkedIn. There's a pharmacy advocate. And then I also have, uh, my own, uh, page, my own profile on LinkedIn as Jerico.

You're 

[00:59:41] Mike Koelzer: lucky you're, you didn't just Rob a bank or something like that because you'd have a hard time hiding. That's 

[00:59:46] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: why I don't Rob banks. 

[00:59:50] Mike Koelzer: No. So that's a great thing. It's so easy to, it's so nice to be able to get a hold of people and, and in their, in people's own, own ways that they'd want to do that.

They can either kind of, uh, what are they, what do they call it kind of stock you from afar, looking at some of the things or they can, they can reach out, but I'm sure you would. You'd invite them to reach out and, and shady it so well, Eureka. Thank you. And I look forward to staying in touch. 

[01:00:12] Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Let's stay in touch.

Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.