Is Selling Medical Equipment Smart? | Acacia Flory, Retail Experience Consultant

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Mike: Acacia. Introduce yourself to our listeners.

Acacia: I'm Acacia Flory. I am a 20 year veteran of retail, and I'm really looking forward to helping other pharmacies bring the retail sector to profitability.  

Mike: Pharmacies over the years they've had some retail stuff. It wasn't a huge profit market for them because there was so much revenue in the Pharmacy department. And then when that started going down, pharmacies needed to start selling the balloons and lottery ticket and everything under the sun to make

money. They were always able to have a chain pharmacy in every corner because I think their over the counter stuff was decent,

Acacia: Right.

Mike: that's not there because Amazon and different things like that, So it sure has gone through a lot of and changes over the

Acacia: Yes. One of my favorite quotes is the only thing consistent about business and retail business has changed.

I think the important thing to remember about Pharmacy retail is that it doesn't have to be balloons and cards and all those kitschy things that you normally see in pharmacies.

The things that I would really like to see in retail pharmacy is having our pharmacy teams be experts in mobility care in bathroom and safety, partnering with maybe local companies who can install those things. But we're the experts in making sure that our patients are cared for on that end. 

Where Walgreens falls short, they have a small little section. The retail pharmacy sector has a really big space that isn't being utilized. And a lot of it is durable medical equipment. And then again, like the CPAP machines, those types of things. So when I say sales, I'm more concerned about the teaching and the training of the teams so that we can teach our customers how to use those things. 

Mike: In our history, I'm at a. Independent and my family, my grandpa and dad, everybody's past. 

In fact, I would never be in a family business unless it was just myself. wouldn't be very good at having somebody else. So anyways, we had medical equipment for years and years and years. And we went through some changes back in the early nineties.

I went to NC. PA pharmacy ownership training, and they talked about doing more of this stuff. So we got into it, were doing billing for it and so on. We stopped billing, I don't know, 10 years ago and about three or four years ago, we just stopped the whole damn thing because it was so unpredictable, I was just getting old and stale and cranky and stuff like that.

, it's a hard business in that the prescriptions, when you sell a prescription legally, when it's out the door, you're done, you can't touch it, you can't take it back, things like that. But with the equipment, someone could come in with their mother and they spend like a half hour there and they don't buy anything.

And then they come in again, spend a half hour and they finally buy something. But then like three days later, they come in, they bring it back, and return it and things like that. So it's not a real clean business. But there is some profit there if you do it right. And I know you do it right. 

And you put your money where your mouth is because you were in quite a few stores, working just for the store, not as an outside consultant.

Acacia: Right. Yeah. So, I actually worked for Pharmacy up in Tom Hawk, Wisconsin. That was my first little go about, my history is in bigger box retail, step back for a second, I guess, with thatLane Bryant and Target were two businesses that I worked for for a long time. Both businesses work really hard to invest, training.

Education and leadership, and also ownership in our business. So when you run a target store, when you're the store manager of a target store, when you're the store manager of a Lane Bryant store, that is your business. You own that business, you're accountable for it. You're accountable for the profit, you're accountable for.

Getting customers in through the door, you're holding, different ty get people in and excited the company is great beca you with resources. Obvio umbrella of resources. So for smaller pharmacies, I have all the skills I need to do these things so that the pharmacist can sit in the back, deal with the pharmacy stuff, and let me run the retail business as a separate business.

When we break down the numbers at two separate places that I worked at, the front end of the pharmacy and the back end of the pharmacy very rarely cross over. There's a little bit of cross selling, but not a ton because we're too stressed with the other things to worry about cross selling. So if we can dedicate a retail team to cross sell for you guys there's a lot of room to make sure that those returns aren't happening because that's a key metric that we make sure doesn't happen.

There's a lot of things that we can do to teach teams and teach leaders on that end to make sure that it maintains profitability. And as soon as it's not profitable, we can See where that's happening and fix it. Whereas on the pharmacy side, I can't do anything about insurance or PBMs, but I can do something about it. Is my team asking every customer, do you want walker skis with your walker?

Is my team asking every customer, are they accessorizing that rollator so that customer's leave and don't have to come back? Like, I need a basket. I need a tray. My mom's still struggling. Like, are we getting them fully set up? So that. Is what my vision is for our retail front ends for the pharmacy.

When you go somewhere like Blaine Bryant, for example, we sell undergarments for women. We were experts in undergarments. We would have people come in because we knew what we were talking about. We would say three bras or less. We'll get you in a bra. Nobody wants to try on bras all day, 

Mike: Wait a minute. Now, Three bras are less. What does that mean? 

Okay. and secondly, we're not going to get done with the conversation without mentioning 

girdles. Do they still call them girdles? 

Acacia: shapewear Spanx shapewear. 

Mike: All right. So you sell girdles and bras, but now what's the three goals of the bras?

What does that mean?

Acacia: when women come in to try on bras, there are measurements you have to take. It's actually a little bit more technical than most people would realize. 

Mike: I imagine.

Acacia: A lot of women end up trying on lots of bras to get the right fit. 

Mike: Oh,

Acacia: was that we were such experts in how a bra should fit your body and how well we were measuring is that I need you to try on three bras or less to get you in the perfect bra for you.

And that was saving people time. It was also kind of a, It's a little, like, I don't want to go try on bras all day. That sucks. Jeans and bras. Nobody likes shopping for that. 

Mike: Jeans and bras. That like a thing for women? Like we hate 

Acacia: Yeah. 

Mike: bras. That's 

Acacia: Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike: I didn't know that. 

Acacia: Yeah. 

Mike: bought one myself, but I just didn't know that about the women. So yeah, all that comes together to make the process smooth. 

Acacia: Right. So crazy as it is.

sounds to relate bras, I guess, to pharmacy, I mean, a retail product is a retail product. An item is an item. I'm still selling it to you. You have a need. I have a solution. So let me give you a solution, but giving them all the solutions up front, as opposed to waiting for them to come to you with the problem, I think is the best way to drive that profitability on the retail front end.

So trading your teams, one, how to merchandise that product. to how to backfill it. So when your display doesn't look as pretty as it did, when somebody gets excited and grabs something off there, are you leaving it like that broken or are you fixing it? So somebody else is just as excited as the person before them. 

So that excitement and that energy in your store is what I'd like to drive for pharmacy. 

Mike: You talk about ease and things like that, and it's like, when we were doing the DME, we would narrow stuff down kind of like, do you have all these, the 

Acacia: Yeah, absolutely. 

Mike: They narrowed it down.

And I don't know 

Yes. 

why, but we would narrow it down because if you've got like a commode, that's like a five minute sale. If you've got two commodes, that's like a 12 minute sale because they're looking at both of them, then they're comparing them and that kind of stuff.

So I can see where all of that comes together, the ease and all of that. And then along with the employees, it's like they build their confidence up when they don't have to deal with all that malarkey going on too

Acacia: Correct. It just becomes a clear process then. I understand that there's going to be some crossover, like by all means, the one store, one team, if you need to hop in to help out, but I do think that there should be a distinct line between the front end and the back end, because I also think that if we can help those customers answer those questions with that customer service real quick, it sounds.

Not real quick, but if you give those front end people time to become experts in their role, as you do with your pharmacy techs, or as you do with your insurance experts, as you do with your blood draw experts, if you give your retail experts time to become experts at their product and at their job, it would be so much smoother and they would be able to offer so much more time for you.

after investing that time in them. 

Mike: And that's part of the reason we got rid of it because I was hearing from my team. It's like, we're comfortable , where the Motrin and that kind of stuff is. But a customer starts asking this stuff. It's not such a problem that just that we don't know, but then 

we lose our confidence.

and you're standing out there and you don't really know, and then it all falls to

Acacia: yeah, my dream, this is a small dream I have because independent pharmacy to

We aren't in competition with each other. Like my independent pharmacy up here in Northern Wisconsin isn't in competition with somebody's independent pharmacy down in Pennsylvania. So if there are two different store managers that are struggling with those, those feelings or those kinds of things, I mean, how nice would it be if we could meet up for a conference call once a month?

And say, we're gonna talk the stuff out. Those are, those are valid feelings. But it's also okay to not know your customer doesn't know. So you say to your customer, I don't know either. Let's figure it out together. So you spend 10 minutes today figuring it out tomorrow. You get that same question and now you have the answer.

That pushback sounds scary at first, but once you learn it, I mean, it all starts slow. We all started somewhere. So giving it just a little bit of time to do that.

Mike: So Keisha, you were at these other retailers, Lane, Bryan and Target, and then , I know you worked for some stores. What is your lot in life now? Are you talking to many stores, kind of consulting or are you in a store now? What's your status?

Acacia: I'm currently consulting. Both of the stores I've worked for still keep me On their back burner for help and consulting things. What my goal is for those stores when I end up working for somebody. I mean, I like living in Wisconsin. I want them to be self-sufficient.

Those leadership skills are something that I think. these small communities, you have somebody like me in your community that you're just maybe not noticing or maybe just needs a little encouragement or a little bit of growth. And I think, my lot in life is giving other people these tools so that they can make their small pharmacy successful too.

So that they can have that ownership, 

Mike: So your goal is to consult. you don't have a 

desire right now to be that person any longer,

Acacia: No, I've done that for a long time. 20 years I've done that. I have the energy for it and I have the passion for it, but I have more of the passion, I think, to remind people that they have the energy and excitement for it too. 

Mike: Keisha, I'm about done. I think I've been at the pharmacy since I was like 13. I've been there for like 40 some years. And this lady called the other day. I'm crabby all the time. This is just the most recent one, but she calls me. she said, I only got one vial of this.

I was supposed to get two and I look and I'm like, ah, crap, we made a mistake. And now it's late in the day and things like that. So I get back on the phone. I'm just trying to kind of collect my thoughts, deciding what to do. And I said, okay, so, miss Smith, you got. You got just one vial. She said, yeah, I got one vial.

My nurse is right here next to me. She can vouch for me. And I said, miss Smith, this is not a question about your honesty. I'm just trying to get the story right now. I did it a little bit nicer than that, but just a cranky old guy, so I'm about done with that. I'm about done, 20 years in retail.

That's plenty of time to decide to make a change.

Acacia: But I also think that there's a lot of missed opportunities when people are looking for maybe a retail manager because I noticed working in pharmacy like when I showed up at the N. C. P. A. Conference. It was. all pharmacists and maybe one or two techs. But there are so many people that are doing great things in these small retail stores that could be helping you grow your business.

So I mean, watch for those cashiers, take some skills out of the pharmacy and see what kind of profit you can come from the front end. Some of those ideas are excellent. We actually had, the local pharmacy here has a snow angels program.

So, people will donate money, in a little box. And then some of the elderly folks who can't shovel, the local place that shovels will take that money and shovel for them. So they're not getting fully paid, but those things are happening . So like we market that and that brings people in to drop off cash.

That also brings them in to buy. little tchotchkes. It also brings them in to see what the store looks like and it brings them in to see we have the latest in the stand up walking rollators. 

Mike: 

So here's the big thing Acacia when you're doing these stores is it third party pay is a cash pay what would your goal be? and if people get into this? Are you recommending the whole billing thing or just cash and carry?

Mike: 

Acacia: two that I've worked with, we did cash and carry and we were really successful with cash and carry. Medicare is hairy. If you are able to bill Medicare. Awesome. If you are able to do that for your lift chairs or for your durable medical equipment, awesome.

I know that lift chair billing generally, one of the gentlemen I worked with from one of the lift chair companies, it's the mechanism that Medicare can bill for so even, even if you're having that conversation, the way that we were doing our sales, with the cash and carry was having that conversation ahead of time.

Yes, it's cash and carry. Here's the information about this. Give Medicare a call, see what they say to you and then come back to us and we have an answer and we have solutions. And then the other option was that we were offering care credit. So that's always an option as well. I care about credit, I was something that we were using where it was a third party who would offer a credit card, like a medical credit card, basically used for medical equipment.

But that way, if you couldn't afford 3, 000 on a lift chair, you could put it on your credit and you could have 12 months to pay wasn't terrible, but it was also, we have solutions that we could offer. 

Mike: All right. So if you're talking to a group of, let's say 10 pharmacy owners who haven't. Done much medical equipment outside of a commode and a walk or something like that. What is your main message to them? Is it, try this? Is it, you should do this?

Acacia: I'd say the only thing you can do is give it a try. It's knowing what your market is. I know in my area, I know what our general age population is. So generally knowing what your surrounding area is, is important and knowing what your customers are asking for. So I know that my customers were not looking for the same thing.

three ladies didn't wanna have the same red walker in the same home care system that we had. So, making sure that we have a variety of walkers for them or something else or, there's a place here that does graphic wrapping and they are offering a discount. If you buy the walker from this pharmacy, we give you a discount on your graphic wrap.

Acacia: So then they could get it wrapped as however they wanted. There's a lot of cross selling, I think, opportunities that aren't being utilized. And I also think that giving it a try doesn't hurt. The thing

I was convinced the first pharmacy to do was to buy, you can actually still see it, on the NCPA website.

I convinced them to buy a bright purple Walker and we decorated it for mother's day. So we had balloons everywhere. Somebody came in a couple of days later and we didn't sit on our floor for more than three days. Somebody came in and was like, Oh my gosh, I'm buying that for my mom for mother's day.

Can I get the balloons too? Yeah, you can. We'll give you the balloons. 

Mike: It brings up an important point about pharmacy and medical equipment in general, you want word of mouth in a business, maybe not only to depend on it, but with pharmacy, not many people talk about, Hey, I got this nice tablet from such and such.

It's just not a conversation thing. And with medical equipment. you do have some of that with the flowered Walker and that kind of thing. There's a little bit more word of mouth.  

Acacia: Well, depending on your demographic, there's some really interesting companies that are coming over from overseas, bringing like, some Danish rollators There's some really innovative stuff. One of the chairs that one of my clients just bought actually is app controlled, so her caregiver could control it on her phone and call it to her. 

And some of these things are really helpful for their day to day, 

Mike: I forget who said it. Some people in the news, but they said that at its core, Apple is a medical company, Apple phone at its core. It's a medical company. That's where it's going to monitor and all that kind of stuff. So it sure is going to be the way. 

So with all the medical equipment, I don't know. I'm glad to be out of the equipment. it was kind of fun, here's the other thing too, is that If it's thought of as something, maybe fun, like a cane with some flowers on it, people don't mind buying it.

People will go and spend gobs of money on coffees and bras from Lane Bryant, that kind of stuff, but get them to cough up money for something that they think the government or insurance should be paying for. And they'll want, 

You know, 5 socks covered or something like that. 

Acacia: something that we did. We actually ordered one of those. Like medicare like this is the one medicare would buy you off of whatever that's we ordered that and we set it up next to one of the walkers that.

We cash and carry and we carry some good brands. 

A well known company that everybody uses for DME. of that company, she puts out videos on a

Acacia: regular basis on how to use her products, training on her products.

 I sent her pictures of work my team was doing on their end caps and she sent us a little swag bag of coffee mugs and stuff But being able to show off the features that a walker like a Nova would have compared to that one that Medicare has given you for 70 bucks 

Mike: That's 

Acacia: was a really big comparison.

And it was, also the kind of the same thing that you were telling people at Lane Bryant, like, are you going to spend 20 on a Walmart bra 10 times? Are you going to spend 40 on a Lane Bryant bra? And when you think about it, it's not only the knowledge of your cost consumer, but it's also the quality of the product you carry. 

Mike: I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We've got, I don't know, officially two hundred thousand people or something like that. It's a decent size. I've got 40 pharmacies within a 10 mile radius of me. It's really surprising 

we didn't do billing, but it's surprising in a way how low. Our DME 

revenue was given that we didn't have much competition for it. We stopped like, two or three years ago doing this and we get people coming in asking about it, but I don't know where all that business is going or if it's Amazon, I just don't know. 

I think that somebody coming into a pharmacy like ours, they would look at the demographics. You know how they do that before you put in a Jimmy John's or something.

Mike: They probably look at a bird's eye view and do the circles and all that stuff and show you how far your customers are and all that. I would think that somebody would think that a store like ours could do a good job and have a decent revenue at that. Maybe we did, but it just didn't seem worth it to us, 

Acacia: do you notice that your customers come in though after they've had a fall or a bathroom incident to get that stuff? Or was it before? 

I don't know. I mean, now I don't talk to him about it, but back in the day, it was probably, yeah, you're probably right. It was afterwards. So we didn't do real creative selling and trying to, safety proof, the home and things like that. Yeah. I mean, when somebody came in to buy a grab bar, we would have a checklist of all of the other things that would go with a grab bar. Like, if you're going to have a grab bar. Get a stool, get a whatever, let's set up your whole bathroom for you. even if they're just asking about it, it's not always the sale that day, it's giving them that information because they'll come back to you.

These are bigger ticket items. You don't have to carry a bunch of little stuff and you don't have to have a huge DME inventory,

Mike: We had mentioned some of the chain stores and that, and they might have, I think the average chain store might have, 12 linear feet of that or something like that. How much do you think is too little? 

Acacia: I mean, if you don't have any in your store, I think that's too little. I would say it depends, I guess, the experts that you're putting in your store. I think for Walgreens to be a health and wellness store, I think eight feet is definitely too little?

for them. But I think for a pharmacy, I would say if, depending on the size of your pharmacy, eight feet might be all you have, but then utilizing that space to display differently, you could still fit three or four walkers in that space.

Comfortably at different levels. So it's about merchandising too. Walgreens doesn't merchandise well. 

Mike: years ago, this is probably 25 years ago now when we were heavier into the equipment. At that time, there were some big box stores that they thought they could come in and, and, kind of kill the market. I'm not sure how much market there was, but they thought they could come in and kill it.

And I think the problem that they found is that one, a big store like that. First of all, it's like. If you and I are there, Acacia, I don't want to run into you and say, how are you doing? And you're like, I'm okay, but I can't find the right size catheter. And you're like, you think you've got a problem. My commode, you know, you don't want to see people there and talk about it.

And then two, the parking lots were too big. If someone's got some problems hobbling around, you don't want them to have to park that far away and come across. I think it's just things like that, that people don't always think about.

Acacia: I agree. 

Mike: Here's the thing, we'd have salespeople come into the pharmacy and they'd say, They'd talk to my dad and they'd say, we're selling this product. It's exclusive only to independent pharmacies.

And my dad would lean over to me and say, well, that's because none of the other big guys want them, but on that point, are there any national players in this? And I would play devil's advocate. And I would say, well, in case if there's no national players, then why should a pharmacy put more into that?

Acacia: There are national players?

There's some, there's probably one you might recognize. There's what? Home medical. It's just called home medical. 

Mike: Well, that's original. 

that's the 

name of the whole medical. 

Acacia: The billboard in Upper Michigan that I saw just had a big, big chair going up a pair of stairs, like calling home medical.

 Other retailers, and most of them are overseas, Danish, Swedish companies, German companies. When I'm seeing their rollators and their products, they're coming up with new and innovative stuff.

Mike: But I'm not talking about manufacturing. I'm talking about retail. 

Acacia: I don't think that We, as a community whole, like as a whole country, maybe are focused on mobility the same as others. There's a market for it. I don't think that we're taking advantage of it, 

Mike: like you alluded to earlier. We think it's after you're hurt , and it's,it's hide the cane in the closet, that kind of stuff where, what they're probably doing is, being proud of the fact that just like you'd be proud of having a, new iPhone, you might be proud of a new Walker because it gives you life and all that kind of stuff.

Acacia: You don't think about it until you have to have it. And then the people who need it aren't the ones buying it. it's their kids. 

Mike: we always had that issue too, because with pharmacy, you can kind of pay for top of mind awareness, because, you know, people are going to come there every, so often, six times a year or something like that with medical equipment, you really couldn't have top of mind awareness because you can't, Market to someone their whole life, if they're going to need a wheelchair when they're 95, there's creative ways there we did a lot of marketing to the point person that would be the nurse at the doctor's office who.

Would tell people where to go and so on. So there's levels you can do, but it's hard for the top of mind awareness. But with the stuff you're talking about, there are impulse things. I don't know if a rollator is not necessarily impulse, but there's a lot of impulse stuff in that market too.

Acacia: Yeah. absolutely. There's ways that you could market that might hit all demographics in a way that you don't realize one idea that I had thought about in the past was doing like a roll at a rally. But bring your grandkids, so the grandkids roll around on roller skates or bikes and the grandparents are going on around with their walkers and it's a race for all ages.

So then it becomes fun because everybody's got wheels. So, a lot of times when the fire stations or the police stations are doing things like those bikes giveaways or the helmet things. like, I mean we can join in on that.

So I mean There's a lot of ways to 

bring it to the forefront. 

Mike: There's a lot of ways you can be better at it.  

So we talked about mobility. What other things are you seeing in that market that would not be in your typical Lowe's department store, things like that.

What other, Categories are popular enough?

Acacia: incontinence care is a big one. I think incontinence care is one of those things like, yeah, you can go to Target and get a pack of depends and people do that. But one of the things that you could offer is a program where it's automatically delivered. Or a package deal where you get the care package, the cleaning wipes those types of things.

And I think the other thing that they don't display in a Lowe's or a Walgreens is they don't have those medical equipment products displayed either. At the pharmacy I worked for recently in Illinois, they actually set up toilets and they set up a bathtub, and then put them in the ground and they had a try me stuff on them.

So people were actually able to try and see the difference between a three inch lift and a five inch lift. I it's a small thing, but it made a big difference, 

Mike: You're saying there's a toilet there someone says, try me and you have enough confidence that they're just trying it for the height. 

Acacia: I put a rubber ducky in the bottom. So if they pull down their pants, I mean, I guess it's my problem at that, 

Oh, they put a rubber ducky. So they don't actually use it. a little rubber ducky in the bottom. It said, try me. And then it was just kind of like, so you could see the difference between a five inch and a three inch lift.  

Mike: So Keisha, what would your dream be right now? If I said, okay, so you're going to get paid what you want, What would you love to do for a month in this area? Would it be getting stores off the ground? Would it be working for a manufacturer and giving them suggestions on how to market their products to the pharmacies and so on?

Acacia: what would be the coolest thing you could do for a month in this area? 

If there are pharmacies that were struggling with their front end, but are really concerned about it and really want it to grow. I would really love to be able to help their teams. Take off and get that off the ground so that they're not stressed about that part of things.

Acacia: my absolute dream, I think, next month would be to see more exciting marketing and more exciting things around durable medical equipment. So our mobility is, it does stay longer. I mean, there are a lot of people my age that use M40. There's a lot of people my age that use canes.

I have a friend with MS who needs one all the time. I think I would really like to see. Some of these companies market these things towards our generation. 

Mike: my mother in law, she, well, all right. years ago when Margaret and I built our house, we had this plan out and my mother in law I love her. She's a mother. I mean, they don't have mother in law jokes for nothing. She's my mother in law. So she's like, where's my bedroom?

And she was serious, looking at her blueprint, where's my bedroom? So we helped her get over to this little house around the pharmacy basically. And then 10 years later, she moved and she moved over to Heron Manor, which is like a three story, nice, independent living place across town.

people would come in the pharmacy and they'd say, Hey, how's Mary Lou? And I would say, you didn't hear, I said, she moved on to a better place looking down on us all. So they'd say how sorry they were. And I'm like, why are you sorry for her? She's over here in Woods, anyways, so now she's moved to a place and she probably walks, I don't know, a hundred yards to go to the dinner table where it used to be, 20 yards. Hop on the elevator.

The family, we were kind of watching her and some of my siblings in law, they were like, boy, she's not, doing well this or that. And I'm like, yeah, but give her a walker. And she turns into a new person. she doesn't even really put much weight on it. It's just a confidence thing.

And then that might take her for three years and you can put her three years in a scooter or something like that. So I think these companies, if they would come out, like you're talking and make it, Kind of a cool thing. Then it's like, people are thinking about it. Like the kids are thinking about it way before they kind of give up on, Mary Lou, 

Acacia: My dad is a retired firefighter, so he's 63 now. He just had to have a knee replacement. I mean, and he had a, he had a replacement at 59. But he didn't want to use a cane or a walker because it made him look old. Like, you just have a whole neighborhood replaced, you're gonna have to use one. 

Mike: if they could make it, cool to have them. Well, like right now. All right, acacia, you don't know me, but I don't have my glasses on right now because of the distance of the screen and things like that and you probably think ah, Silver fox or whatever you want to call me, 

Acacia: I would put you in your 40s, so that's fair. 

Mike: had a guest a few weeks ago. I'm talking about generations. He's like well, You're a lot older than I am I'm 58. I'm like, how old are you? He says I'm 67. to say that I'm older than he is, you wouldn't say someone's older.

If they're like five years older, you would say, I'm not going to even guess to say someone's older. You got to be pretty damn sure they're older. So he's 67. He had to put me at like 80 or something like that. Anyways, my youngest son is 14 now. And when he was like, Six or seven. I'd get in the room with them and I'd wrestle, tussle with them.

I'd take my glasses off and he'd say Put your glasses back on because I look like one of those grandmas that they take their glasses off and they look like they're just woken up from the dead, without the frames on. So anyway, my point is, glasses have become a 

fashion

Acacia: they're fashionable. I have five pairs I could grab right now and flip them out 

Mike: But you don't think about that with walkers and canes and things like that, but 

why not? 

Acacia: Exactly. Exactly. That again comes across selling. I think one of the last pharmacies I was working for, we actually bought bike bags because they looked way cooler than any of the Walker bags. I could find Walker bags with purple butterflies. I could find Walker bags with blue bubbles, but I couldn't find anything that screamed like, I'm 55 and I'm still cool.

So we were buying bags for bicycles and they were awesome. Those were selling better than the bags for walkers and again, cross selling cause then, kids want one too. Mom wants one too. 

Mike: What other industries have made stuff kind of sexy? Obviously cars are not for transportation. That's a status thing.

We talked about glasses and of course there's a ton of other stuff. 

Acacia: our phones, that's a tool, we use it all the time, it's just a phone, but it's fancy as hell. 

If I don't have a pretty case, I'm not happy, 

Mike: haven't come across it, but I'm sure in every certain status of school system, if you don't have the most 

recent iPhone or down a level, you're 

like a laughing 

stock. 

Acacia: the Stanley cup, I mean, people are buying those Stanley cups,

in every pattern, every color, every case, every bottom, I mean, think about it, if you could flip out different colors for your walker every day, heck Yeah. match your Stanley to your walker, sure. 

Mike: And then you could sell, like, think about it. You could sell like a 64 ounce Stanley cup and then have continent supplies next to it. What a nice combo.

Wasn't that funny? 

The stuff that has come back, like that was an old one, you know, Stanley and, what's the one cart heart or whatever. It's funny the old stuff that takes off like that.

Acacia: Yeah, it's funny because it was always that Carhartt's a, hipster thing, and I'm like I've got Carhartt's from when I was 20 that I'm still using to plow in 

Mike: jumping back into that topic, do you picture a national store ever having an impact? 

Acacia: Or do you see certain categories? I have dreams of one. The last pharmacy I worked for, we set up a store that was completely Just DME. It Was just a DME store. 

Mike: DME. Was close location wise?

Acacia: the pharmacy location had its own DME, so it became the name of the pharmacy featuring our home medical.

Name that we had. And then we had opened our own, then we had opened A DME separate, so it had a separate freestanding store. It's still new, so it's still growing, but so far so good. It's the thing that I love about it compared to. The pharmacy or the other home medical stores I've been into is how light and open we made it.

It's bright when you walk in. It's welcoming. You want to sit down in a chair because it looks like you're sitting in your living room instead of sitting in a store where you're testing out a bunch of furniture. It feels like walking into a place where you belong and you can ask these questions and it's colorful.

 Bright and exciting, and people can try out the products and have plenty of floor space to ride a scooter around and get the feel for it, as opposed to feeling like they're taking up somebody's sick space in the pharmacy. 

Mike: Back in the day when we did our stuff. That was a thought of mine because I think medical equipment was better in the pharmacy than like, our pharmacy and a comic book section or something like that. I think medical equipment was a lot better, but I would say to myself, all right, If somebody opened up the cross the street from us in equipment and they were just equipment, would my pharmacy be a draw for our equipment? 

or would it be a negative draw? A detriment I actually had some space next to our store. I could have done something, but then you've got an employee in there. I could have done it. I think I would have been further ahead if I would have done that, because I think it's just, if you're going to go get something, you're going to go to such and such mobility, instead of just going to Joe's pharmacy. So Joe thinks he has a draw for that, but he probably doesn't when it comes down to someone that's marketing just directly for that.

Acacia: So one of the pushbacks.

we get when I, when I talk about bringing DME and pharmacies to as well, Amazon carries that. I mean, for cripes sake, you can go to Home Depot And find a lift chair or, or a Walker in order from them, but are they going to know about it?

Are they going to service it? What's the warranty like? What happens if it breaks? You're gonna have to deal with the online service or do you have a store to go to? Like all of those things I don't think people think about, where's it coming from? What's, if you're building it at home, is it, is it sturdy enough?

Did you test it? How are the breaks? So I think those are big things that our pharmacies and an independent store would be able to offer as well, as opposed to. Somebody pushing back, I can get 10 cheaper on Amazon. Well, your 10 is making me 

Mike: Keep you safe. 

Some people just want to try it or they want their mother to try it, that kind of stuff.

Acacia: And some people just want to know that they're making the right decision, even if That's having the clerk say it's the right decision. 

Mike: There was a study. I read it somewhere, they had waitresses and waiters, and they would come up and there's three things that waitresses and waiters can do, one if they would.

Well, here's the one I hate. I hate when they don't write stuff down. Do you like that one? Wait.

Acacia: my gosh. Yes. No, I hate when they don't write it down. Write it down.

Mike: it down.

And then the work is when they come back and ask, it's like, all right, you don't have to write it down. If you're going to show off and do a good job of it, but don't drag your ass back here and ask me what it was.

Just get your pencil so there was that one, but here's the two other ones you could do. One is, when people would say something and the waiter would say, ah, good choice.

there was that one, but there's also the waiter that said, when they said it, they would write it down and they'd repeat it back to them. They'd say, you want a double burger with Jesus and they said, those people, I don't know who the hell did the study, but they said, those people got better tips than the other two people who wanted that comfort.

 They want to be heard. They want to be recognized and they want confidence 

Acacia: I actually had a friend go shopping for some furniture the other day and I asked her if I could borrow this experience. But she walked into a furniture store and she walked out and posted that I have grown up money to spend and I need a new couch.

And I went in there and I asked the gentleman two questions and he seemed so exasperated by my questions. And I know that they're simple questions, but it's a big investment for me. But I went to this other furniture store and oh my gosh, they were so excited to take my money and they were so nice and helpful.

And it's like, even just that little bit 

we could all do better in retail, inviting people in. . I could do better instead of yelling at the lady. I was questioning her truthfulness. but I think that that's too, again, we're having that little bit of space for that the retail front end team gives them a little bit more of like, they're not dealing with the rough stuff in the pharmacy 

Mike: Absolutely right. The pharmacy people, it's a different crowd. They're coming in and they want something fast 

Acacia: And they're frustrated and they're angry with insurance and not

And that makes it really hard for our DME team to want to help people who actually need the help for that stuff. 

Mike: Yes. They've been at the doctor all day and their kids are crabby and all that versus somebody who, you know, they want to have a better life for their mother or something like that.

So it's a different crowd and you can, rush a pharmacy thing when it should be a more of a drawn out HME stuff and typically the, profit margins there to spend 

more time with 

Acacia: But I think then too, if you can set some clear goals on what you need your retail space to be profitable, so you can have a full time. Like even if at the one I was working for, it was just me. I was the one full time retail person, which is fine. I trained other people to cross train when they had the four hours, three hours there. 

Mike: Well, our problem we had is back in the day, we were open out. Just crappy hours. I mean, we were open, like all retail pharmacies. We're like nine till 10 at night and Saturdays and Sundays. I always said to myself, I do a good job with HME stuff. If I could have a nine to five Monday through Friday, that's what we are now.

That was part of the problem in our store where we'd be open on a Saturday, nine to eight, and you'd have three or four, 16 year olds working with a pharmacist.

Who's got his ear tuned to the tiger's game or something like that. And no one knew what the hell was going on. but I can see if you had like a nine to six and you had someone now, now you're dealing with vacation and all that. So you can't just have a soul person, but you can have someone who's really good at it 

Acacia: I mean you could have a leader in that position at least somebody to direct it.

somebody who owns that space I guess like give them that space and this is your job and if it's not profitable We're gonna talk to you about why and we'll figure it out together But like that, would be their job basically is to make sure it's profitable 

The other thing that was always hard for us is, and I could have changed this, but. you had a selection of stuff and you were never quite done. In other words, you had like a wheelchair and they needed this, but they needed a left leg rest, but they needed something else over here, and it's like, if I could have done that over, I don't know if I would have narrowed down, like we talked about the one. Come old versus two. I don't know if I would have narrowed it down or what I would have done exactly. But, there's a certain beauty of, of having just onesies and twosies of things and saying, this is what we have. 

Absolutely. And I think the, I, it depends again on what you are. So if you were a full time durable medical store, like by all means, you should always be full and have.

Acacia: everything that you need. If you're a small independent pharmacy, what are your top five sellers? What flies out the door the most?

Mike: Make sure those are always in backstock. Other than that, we know we can usually get the next. Next day or the day after with that stuff. I mean, most of the DMV places are pretty quick with your ordering systems 

I was surprised by the major wholesalers and I haven't looked in 10 years, but the major wholesalers never did much of that. one of the things that would have been good to have a company, with one manufacturer, or at least one distributor that kind of labeled everything from theirs.

Mike: Because. You'd get like wheelchairs and these wholesalers, I'm surprised they didn't dedicate more to it. the three big ones, because it was just, they'd sell like, they'd have like different wheelchairs every month.

And it's like, no, we needed that wheelchair because that lug rest does that thing. And that person wanted that. they were just all across the board on that.  

But as far as merchandising, I kind of always like impulse items.

Mike: Do you remember Ronco? What was Ron called the, it was a beef jerky maker, that kind of stuff, there's probably a crap load of that stuff out there for medical equipment, but you know, that's the kind of idea. stuff that is kind of fun. Medical equipment.

We did some of that. We would get some exercise balls in and this and that and we did some of that, but there's a lot of cool things you can do.

Acacia: But then, I mean, every pharmacy probably either has a Facebook or an Instagram, right, for your local community. So if you want to advertise your DME, I mean, give that to your, your manager too and say, start advertising our DME, make us some ads for Facebook, do.

something goofy or something fun. You can make little short videos there's TikTok challenges There is a assisted living that was having their, people doing TikTok challenges and it was so cute because they'd say things like subject is running away and the lady would look at you with her walker and she'd go, running where?

Mike: There's some really cool things you can do there that's the whole thing. I think the gist of it is it's got to be. Cool forward thinking this side, instead of that side, 

and like we talked, it's going to be slow, but someone's gotta keep making it cool. and I feel weird saying that cause it's like, when would they ever make commodes cool or something like that? But somebody will do it, somebody will find a way.

Acacia: Somebody tells you, you have to try a bidet and you're like, heck no. and then you own one. And now everybody owns one. Once you own a seat lift, everybody's going to own a seat lift.

Mike: You

opened up a subject there, but day, I'm not going to ask if you have used one, but has somebody very close to you ever used a bidet and you've talked to that person, 

Acacia: Yes. And they're fantastic . 

 This is what my uncle told me. If you were cleaning up your yard from your dog and you got some of that on your hand , would you take a piece of paper and rub it off and be like, that's good enough and then walk away? No.  

the first time you try it. it's more like, oh, well that was way less weird than I thought it would be. 

Mike: But they've got toilets actually built with them. And then they have a future, like insert or something. Right.

Acacia: yeah, the inserts are easy, and I think some of the inserts work with some of the toilet seat lifts as well, like the three inch, not the five inch lifts, 

Mike: Did they get the water from?

Acacia: the plumbing from the back of the toilet, like it comes out of the same, I mean, water comes, you gotta fill the tank. with water, 

Mike: When I was a kid I had brothers and six sisters. When I was a kid, it always sucked because all my bro, we always had to sleep in a big room in the basement. The girls headed upstairs and no matter how good a basement is, you're still going to find like , rolly pollies.

by the window and these spiders and stuff. It was just never good. And I think my dad did the plumbing, God bless him. But about every 10th time you're on the toilet, and you flushed it, the water must have been like 150 degrees.

'cause you'd be sitting there and all of a sudden you'd flush and it'd be like this, just like a sauna underneath you. I never figured it out though. It was not comfortable. hopefully a bidet is better than that, 

Acacia: Yes. Yes. 

Mike: Acacia, so someone's listening to this. And you're going to tell them something that they're going to do with the next two minutes after they get done listening to the podcast.

What should they do with two minutes? What should they look up? Should they look up your stuff? Should they commit to this or that? What should they be doing with a couple of minutes? 

Acacia: If you have questions for me or you're looking for me, I am happy to answer and I am available. You can find me on LinkedIn, under Acacia Flory, you'll be able to find it with this podcast, you guys follow the NCPA website, 

Some of my work from a few years ago is still there so if you're interested in seeing some of my before and after I want to say it's the front end overhaul page, some of my work still appears there as well.

Mike: What do they do? Are they gonna hire you for a bit? What are they gonna do?

Acacia: I am hireable. I can do a virtual, consult with you and see what your store looks like. If you want to pay me to travel and come see your store and do a one on one and have some conversations with you and your team, I can do that. What I'm really hoping to do is gather a group of couple pharmacies. be able to have a monthly conversation with some front end team leaders or front end managers so that we can use each other to network and grow. So if anybody's interested in maybe doing a month, like a monthly or bi weekly session with me for an hour, that would be fun too.

So that we can network and get some ideas out there for you guys. 

Mike: I don't Like networking because you just don't need to as some stuff,  

But it's not a huge world of that stuff. You don't find one on every corner. And so the networking in this situation can be pretty valuable.

Acacia: There were times when I needed some type of support from my area lead and as a business owner and as the pharmacist, you have so much going on that me coming to you and complaining about HME stuff is going to seem. minimal. So having a network of people who are dealing with the same problems and finding the same solutions and even just maybe dealing with the same pushback from customers having people to bounce ideas off of, or even, I guess, kind of spit sales back and forth.

Sometimes we would fake sales with each other so we could get the verbiage right, which is really nice to have. And I know that, you as pharmacists, that's why you go to those conferences, so you can do that. It's really important. I think, for your teams and if you're going to put somebody in charge there, to have some type of support, whether that be me or a network that they've created that are doing the same things or doing similar things so that they can support each other in their ideas. 

Mike: 

Well, golly, Acacia, nice to meet you. It is a pleasure talking to you. It's fun to get into the old stuff again and bitch a little bit. And then have you there to sort of balance things out for our listeners.

Mike: But they got to get all sides. We got to be honest with them, , but it was a pleasure 

having you  

Acacia: I appreciate you having me on. Thank you so, so much. This has been awesome. It's been great meeting you. 

You've been listening to the Business of Pharmacy podcast with me, your host, Mike Kelser. Please subscribe for all future episodes.