Networking with LinkedIn | Iqbal Atcha, RPh, MBA, Career Coach, Atcha International

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: [00:00:00] Well, hello, Iqbal. Hey Mike, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing fantastic, sir. Thanks for having me on the show. Thanks for 

Mike Koelzer, Host: joining us well for those who haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell our listeners. Why we're 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: talking today? Absolutely. Well, my name is Iqbal Atcha and I'm the principal and CEO of ACHA international consulting.

I'm a pharmacist by trade and after owning and operating seven different healthcare companies, I spent the last 15 years working in talent acquisition for Walmart and Anthem. Uh, for those of you that may not know talent, acquisition is just a nice fancy name for recruitment. Um, and so I recruited about 2000 pharmacists and other healthcare professionals.

And earlier this year, I decided to launch my own company so that I could help candidates find and forge their path forward. So today I work one-on-one with pharmacists and other healthcare professionals, and I give them the tools, the tips, and the techniques that they'll need to advance their career, build a better brand.

And of course create a leadership legacy. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: This is probably one of the toughest times right now in the last 30 years. For pharmacists, gee, maybe in history, this is the toughest time for pharmacists, with the, at least what I read about having a lot of pharmacy schools, a lot of pharmacists, some of the pharmacies cutting back wages going down and all that kind of stuff.

Is that a true statement? Is that a myth? What are, 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: yeah, so I, I would agree with you, Mike. I mean, the dynamics and the landscape of pharmacy are completely different, I mean, they're radically different from when I graduated 20 years ago. Right. There's been a boom and an explosion of pharmacy schools. Um, you know, and, and players have changed their models.

And you're seeing a lot of shifts in the industry whereas the path of pharmacist is still kind of murky. Um, so while it's true that there are definitely decreases in compensation, um, and there's, you know, shifts in terms of opportunities in traditional pharma. Uh, that does not preclude the idea that pharmacists do not have new opportunities that are up and coming.

I think one of the things that I try and work with clients, and even just colleagues and mentors, is recognizing that, you know, what, what we know today as a pharmacist is not enough to be able to continue operating in this mindset. You're going to have to have a variety of skills that quite honestly need to be developed and nurtured so that you become slightly a Jack of all trades in two or three specific things.

Are 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the schools doing their part or are they behind the times? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So I think the schools have some great intent. They are, you know, and I'm on the alumni council. I involve myself highly with a few of those pharmacy schools, particularly in the Chicago area. And I tell you that, you know, they all have the best intent of trying to understand where pharmacy is heading, where organizations and companies are going to be needing pharmacists to step up to the plate.

Um, I think the challenge that I see more and more is the. The conversations are stalled at a few different levels, partly, and especially this year with the, uh, the Corona virus and the pandemic having had such an, uh, had such an impact, you know, people, no matter what industry we're talking about are really understanding well, what does that mean for me?

Um, I think that it would probably take another year, maybe two years of earnest attempts, good conversations, and a lot of open dialogue between industry companies, uh, and academia, to be able to really formalize a game plan, to offer opportunities for their students that are graduating, say 

Mike Koelzer, Host: that you had to put a standard in place for all of the schools of pharmacies.

Now, we don't want you to put too good of a standard in place because we don't want to put you out of a job, you know, because we still needed a little bit tough to find employment, but what would you do right now for pharmacy school? If you could say, we're going to do this right now, what would this be?

If you could change it as early as this next semester coming 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: up. So I've had this conversation with a few schools in the past, and I think it's still relevant today. Um, I would say a few things, I would say number one, segmentation and specialization is key at a critical stage. When I went to undergrad, you know, everybody that wanted to graduate with a bachelor's in biology or some, some sort of science major, you had to take the first two years of gen ed classes, right?

It was just a standard thing that you did. You took biology, you took English. Um, you took some literature classes and you took calculus, but by the time you got to your third year of undergrad, you were taking genetics, immunology, different things that were going [00:05:00] to specialize you and your knowledge base so that when you got out, you are going to be.

More of an expert in that space. I think personally speaking that, identifying that in the new classes that are entering, right, we should have these conversations upfront that by the first or second year, what general direction do you want? And in that vein, you're now able to develop a new class that segmented, maybe a third of them choose to go and, you know, really focused strictly on the clinical aspects of pharmacy.

And therefore they're able to do more renal dosing. Uh, they're more able to identify drug drug interactions, you know, in a, in a, in an ER setting. But there are others that are more interested in the business side. They need to be able to develop those business skills. Um, not just communication, but also more about how you generate revenue.

Um, what does a sales and marketing plan look like? How does one employ that? What are the tools that are available for me to be able to bring it in-house so that I can work with this process and help the organization that's hired me advance this year, next year, three years out, not being able to speak the language of the industry or the niche that sets that individual back.

In my opinion. Honestly, my segmentation and specification is really key, preferably by the second year. If we get to the third year and I see this happening more and more, I see more and more students that will go through a four year program. I realized that there are some pharmacy schools with the three-year program.

And so I'll just kind of include them in this, but they'll go through this four year program. Their mindset is now focused on, I need to do a residency, which is a general PGY one so that they can garner more clinical skills and that's fine. And when they come out, I still am not sure what I want to do.

I think that that's a disservice that's happening. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: The segmentation. I think that's really cool. And when you mentioned that I was thinking, well, all right, well, let's go back where the BS students didn't need as much as the pharm D but then you brought up the point about business. I mean, it used to be that you'd say, all right, these pharmacists are going clinical.

These ones are going more community. Let's let them out early, or let's not teach them as much. What was missing though, was some of those business classes. And now it's not just a business management class or something, it's business as far as really finding the segmentation and thinking big business.

And maybe it's instead of having a pharmacist have to get an MBA, maybe it's that segmentation that's already in there. In that pharmacy 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: degree. I agree with you, Mike. And I admit that there are some colleges that have looked at this from a different perspective, and they've created these dual degree programs, pharm D MBA, pharm D MPH, um, with the intent of being able to develop their students, uh, moving forward in that direction, which is good.

But I still feel that, you know, there's a difference between theory and practical application, right? And I feel that, you know, when we see the same types of rotations being offered to fourth year students, and they're all, you know, working through this process of, Hey, let me learn this, but not being, actually being held accountable to some degree.

Um, you know, one of the things that I always prided myself on when I had students, I would say, this is the project I'm working on. I would like for you to look at this, give me, you know, critique it and then provide me with the next steps. Pretend this is your project. Pretend that you're going to help my pharmacy grow or that you're going to help my consulting company grow.

What am I missing? And like, it's now skidding. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: These poor, I say poor kids, but we've all been through it. You all had to pick a schooling, a degree or something. How would they decide then? Let's say they have two years of undergrad. How would they decide what? Avenue to go. Would you almost get their feet wet in there?

Have them do some kind of a rotation in like year one of pharmacy school to decide if they're going to go more clinical or a business or something, how would you help a student decide that? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Sure. Um, you know, When I first started out in pharmacy school, right? Like we had a small group of pharmacy students and we had a particular faculty mentor, right.

That faculty mentor was there to listen to our professional concerns as well as some of our personal concerns. And that was very critical. What I wish I had had in what I instill, you know, in most of the conversations. And I tried to instill this in other people if you need to have some external mentors.

Both brought in by the school and now with social media, there's no real excuse why that shouldn't be done. I think that that's going to become more and more prevalent, right? I mean, I've seen a lot of student groups that used to have these, um, once a quarter, once a month, uh, guest lunch and learns, which is really good.

Right. And I think that that was something that, you know, was an opportunity for students to be [00:10:00] exposed to an expert in a particular niche. Um, and then to be able to develop a relationship with that person offline and online, and to be able to start developing that, Hey, I want to get to know you more. Um, networking is still critical, right?

And I think that today, whether you are based in one area of the country or not, I mean, if you are just traveling all the time, because you either have, you know, you're on your fourth year rotations and one time you're in Jersey, the next time you're now. Like LinkedIn has changed the game for so many different things.

Um, there is no reason why students should not be leveraging that today. And I encourage all the students that might be listening and even professionals today. That's like, it's like gold at your fingertips. You just need to be able to, I mean, this is a platform that is literally giving you every opportunity to showcase your strengths or skills, your knowledge base.

But I do find that when I, and I go look for a professional's LinkedIn profile, you know, 50% of it is complete and it's been abandoned, you know, five, six years ago. Yeah. That 

Mike Koelzer, Host: LinkedIn boy, that's just a gold mind. I mean, let's say you're a student or looking for a job and you can nail those things down to like them.

Five people at each company, you can look for the chief marketing officer of any company. I mean, it's just amazing what can be 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: done. It really is Mike. I mean, you know, the thing that's so incredible with this as, as a, as a pharmacist and for all scientific professionals, like we are all, so data-driven right.

Everything that we do from our protocols and our algorithms in our head to be able to figure out how does this person get diagnosed for this situation? We actually have a ton of data that we use in order to be able to identify what the best course of therapy is. So in the same vein, when I think of LinkedIn like the data, the trial, the treasure trove of data that exists in LinkedIn today, number one is accessible by everybody.

Um, you don't even need to know how to code. You don't need to know Boolean search. All you need to do is know, for example, Name of company, like, I'll just say like Astellas pharma, uh, and a CEO or a stylist, pharma and HR, they just pop into keywords and you'll just get a whole bunch of things. And from there you can tweak it.

Right? So I have found that in my business, when I target my, my work and my business to specific individuals, like I'm utilizing LinkedIn premium and targeted ads, because I understand that I can resonate and connect with pharmacists, optometrists, medical doctors, and nurses, because I've had that experience on the talent acquisition side to navigate them through how HR works, how companies identify, what top talent looks like, and then letting them know this is what you're already good at.

But do you have a story that speaks to that? Let's put it out on your LinkedIn profile and find a job that you might be interested in that will be a good match between your skills and your strengths. Um, it just requires a little bit of investment and just like riding a bike, you know, it's not easy upfront, but you know, he's peddled a couple of times you fall a couple of times you do it again, get back on.

And next thing you know, you're doing like a 10 mile bike ride and with no training wheels, I think students 

Mike Koelzer, Host: are latching onto that. Are they taking advantage of that or haven't you seen that? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: I haven't and, you know, I've had some good conversations with third years, fourth years, new grads. That means these are students that graduated in 20 18, 20 17.

I'll go back to 2015. Um, and they're very reluctant to be able to leverage LinkedIn for their, for their professional purposes. They're very comfortable on Tik TOK, Snapchat, Facebook, some Twitter, uh, and, and it's fine for them because in those platforms you can be you and you can be social and friendly and fun, and you know, like a cooking video or, you know, whatever.

But for some reason there's a translational error when it comes to leveraging LinkedIn for your business purposes, because the mindset shifts it's well, I dunno what I should say. I don't know how I should present myself. You're changing the personality of who you are on LinkedIn to fit a narrative that other people are defined.

When in reality, I mean, having worked in talent acquisition for 15 years and having hired pharmacists to do, you know, training for a company I owned, like, I need to know the real you and I need to engage with you. And I need you to engage with me and show me that you're an expert in this space. You don't have to write the article on why this particular antibiotic is better than that antibiotic for this particular strain, but you can certainly find that article and comment on it and says, I found this on pharmacy times, and I have to tell you that, uh, you know, this is a game changer, read it like, [00:15:00] oh, I didn't know that.

So there are ways to do that. But now I don't see enough professionals and students leveraging LinkedIn as a brand extension of themselves. And, and that's a disservice to your own professional growth. I always encourage people. Like if you can only be on one B. You're going to be on Facebook for fun family, and you're going to be on Instagram for all the awesome pictures.

And that's nice, but very rarely are you going to find a pharmacist, be able to get hired or find a job on Instagram? It's just not likely it's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: something I came across this morning. It was really odd to see it. And it just really struck me that this pharmacist, an acquaintance, I just knew through social media, he was on LinkedIn and he actually took a stand.

It was remarkable. He wrote something like this current way of doing this thing. And it happened to bead a vaccination distribution or whatever he said this current way is not good. It should have gone this way. Here's why. And I thought, is someone taking a stand on something? And what I mean by stand is normally you'll see people either.

Not taking a stand, the cliche picture of, you know, kitty cats where no one's going to disagree with a kitty cat, you know, or they're taking a stand that everybody would agree with that baseball should not be banned from the U S Serino, something like that. But it was really interesting just seeing this, um, pharmacist take a stand on something that wasn't so far left and right.

That it was automatically in a camp and therefore it was safe. It was just kind of weird. It was just kind of weird to see that you could see their thinking 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: on the program. I know that's a really good call out to Mike because I see there's only 2% of LinkedIn members that are active. This is a platform that has seven over 700 million members or 700 million accounts.

And this is after the LinkedIn purge, right. But there's only 2% that are actively posting, engaging, you know, expressing their opinion. And one of the things that I find is what you just pointed out is. You know, in the beginning, it's very difficult to have a brand that you can stand on and say, Hey, I'm gonna, you know, express my thoughts on this topic.

And I'm going to be, you know, very vocal about how I feel. It's perfectly fine just to dip your toe in the water by observing. And, you know, you can be a stalker for a while, but at some point that you do have to come out and be able to say, I agree. I disagree and express. Cohesively. Why do you agree and disagree?

Not just a yeah. That's right. Or I agree, or amen. Like, no, there's, there's more that's required of you, especially on that platform, but the fact that somebody took a stance on it means that there's original 

Mike Koelzer, Host: thought that that's what it was originally thought. That's what I was looking for. I think it's like, I didn't even know if it was right or wrong.

I didn't even read it, but just that original thought was 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: really cool to see it's a refreshing perspective. Like it's like, wow, you can actually disagree with what's happening because the hoopla is, Hey, this is it. This is the best thing since sliced bread. Yes. We, if we're talking about COVID 19 as a, you know, the logistics of distributing it, like I know in a year there will be tons of studies that will look back at this process and say, yeah, this is how it can be approved.

And the next time, God forbid, we have a pandemic, uh, these are the pitfalls we're going to avoid. Right. But right now, You know, you need to be able to have creative and critical thinkers that can look at that. And that's one of the skill sets that more and more companies need, like, look at a problem. Right.

Don't just agree with it and say, yep, you have my vote. Like, look at the problem and tell me why it works, why it doesn't work, where your concerns are. And more importantly, if there is a concern, what your recommendation is to correct it with this 

Mike Koelzer, Host: goldmine of information, does it seem like your clients, are they hungry for it?

Are they doing it or do they seem hesitant? And if they are hesitant, why is that? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: The clients that I have no, that LinkedIn exists, but they are very. Very very, very reluctant to leverage and utilize all of the gifts that LinkedIn has provided. There's a LinkedIn messenger. There's like 15 different aspects of a LinkedIn profile.

There's multiple groups. I mean, there's like opportunities to engage with different people, both in the, you know, in state, in the country, out of state at different levels of every organization. The fact of the matter is, that what I see more and more is that especially. Pharmacists, scientific professionals.

They're very, very confident and very, very comfortable and competent in what they do on a daily basis. As a working professional. The challenge for them is to be able to translate that and create a narrative. [00:20:00] So when they do communicate with somebody that they have the confidence to present their skills and their achievements in a way that is both authentic and attractive.

And because of that insecurity, People don't take that first step to go ahead and reach out. It's not difficult. Right? We talk about this, like, like it's, it's this magic bullet. Like it, you know, you'd require a PhD in this. You really don't. Well, what you do need to do is literally have like a 15 to 30 minute time block put into your calendar that says I'm not answering phone calls.

I'm not talking to anybody right now. My strategy is to do these three things in the next 30 minutes, identify key individuals at organizations that I'm interested in. It could be the American pharmacist association. It could be Walmart, health and wellness. It can be anything. These are the types of individuals that I'm looking at.

And then I need to be able to send them both an invitation and check out their profiles and give them some kudos. It's not difficult, but it is an investment. And I think that that's where other people will also find sort of an obstacle for themselves because consistency is key. If you're not doing this 30 minutes a day, You're not going to find a pattern being developed and you're going to find less confidence three days later when you haven't, when you haven't done.

So let me level the 

Mike Koelzer, Host: playing field. Let's take away LinkedIn. Pretend like that that there are no individuals over the last 10 years. Have they lost something because of social or because of being spoon fed programs and this and that. Have they lost something that we had or our parents had? Or would you argue that no, they're still there.

It's just that LinkedIn is so new that they just don't know how to use it. What side does that fall 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: on? There is always going to be a percentage of every population that are early adopters that are bold thinkers that are risk takers and they will just go out and they will do it despite the situation.

And despite the circumstances, it's always a percentage, but the majority of individuals that I see today have become very menu driven and I kind of go back and I blame McDonald's for some of this. When you go in and you see like this digital menu, or even the menu in the back, like, Hey, you want a quarter pounder with cheese?

That's all, you know, you can get a big Mac and a quarter pounder with cheese and a cheeseburger. You cannot ask for a burger with 500. 'cause, it's not on the menu. You cannot ask for seasoned fries because it's not on the menu. It's a very menu driven option. And I think that over the last several decades, more and more people have come to accept that what's presented to them is the only option.

And therefore choice is sort of diminished. You don't have to create an opportunity and you don't have to put yourself out there to be authentic and to be vulnerable by saying, hi, I'm Eric Ball. And I would, you know, just come across your profile if that was a quick LinkedIn option or any, any option. If you could just hit a button that you know, right now that just says a high extends, a wink sends a wave.

Does anything of that nature? You know, nine out of 10 people are just going to do that. Now, whether it is meaningful or not, that's a separate conversation. But I think that social media has definitely played a role. Curtailing that, that, that impulse, that creativity that let me go out there and talk to somebody and just put myself out there.

As I always tell my clients, you should do this. And if you're worried about what, what someone's going to respond to you with, just know that the worst thing that you're going to ever get is ignored. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I took a bit of offense when you brought up McDonald's. I want to let you know that part this body you're looking at was built by 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: McDonald's.

I'm five guys, myself kind of person. So I'll go to McDonald's. If I have to 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Eight ball where you were literally years ago, we'd go into restaurants and you might say, Hey, could I have an extra pickle with this? Or don't salt this one so much. And things like that. And McDonald's doesn't 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Yeah I was being extremely literal.

Cause here's, here's the thing, right? The number of options. And I'm, we can talk about social media if you want. Right? Like we can say like, Hey, the number of options in social media platforms is in the millions. Right. We were talking about LinkedIn, but of course there's, Doximity there's of course, Instagram and Tik TOK and all these other different platforms and healthcare platforms are also being developed in order to be able to become more social and then integrate like what your clinical skills are in, in different facets and putting that out there.

But the number of options that exist today in any facet of our life, whether it's professional, physical, um, emotional intelligence or mental, I mean, I can sit down and do, you know, a certification through you to me or Coursera, or, you know, a million other free online [00:25:00] certification programs. It's overwhelming.

And that's where the human mind starts to say, let's look for shortcuts, right? Because if the shortcut is, I want to get from here to there. But there's way too much information for me to process. What's the best way for me to do it? Okay. Here, I'm just going to pick one out of these 5 million and then make it as easy as humanly possible.

If an individual has to take three or four steps to go from point a to point B, they typically leave. And that's something that we've kind of created over the course as a, as a, as a species, we've decided to open the flood gates of options. And because of that, uh, there's just too much information to process.

That's where, you know, having the ability to have real. Phone video face-to-face conversation changes the game because I don't have a menu on my screen right now that says, well, what question do I want Mike to ask me? Right. It's totally impromptu. And that's what is going to make me have to process and think about your question and then be able to give you an answer that's concise and in a confident manner that addresses what you're asking.

Just like an interview question. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It almost seems like as soon as something becomes easy enough for job finders, you almost have to pick the opposite because the numbers, something is hit a button, you're going to get 95% of the people going that way. And you want us to pick out the 5%. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So that's the.

Right. And I think that that's something that I try to work with anybody, whether you're a client of mine, whether you're a mentee, whether you just meet me on LinkedIn or whatever the idea is to be able to distinguish yourself from everyone else. And it doesn't require a lot. I mean, look at our profession, right?

There's over 315,000 licensed pharmacists in the country, uh, as of 2019, right? The numbers are still coming in for 2020, and there's 50, roughly 14 or 15,000 new graduates that have entered the markets. Uh, since 2020, since the day, since today's already December 31st, you know, you're talking about 330,000 professionals that are working in some capacity or in-between, uh, or in transition, they all have a pharm D or a bachelor's in pharmacy.

Many of them have the same number of years of experience, whether it's in retail or hospital or industry. What is it that's going to make you different? That's what I do with my clients. I literally go through the process of exploring their past their current present and what it is that they've done, that I can say, ah, you know what, maybe one in maybe one in a hundred have this certification, or maybe one in a thousand, you know, was able to explain this story because of what they did, how they know how to handle crisis as a recruiter for 14 years, and then having taught 60 other recruiters.

We're not spending a lot of time doing investigative research into your background. Like we're presented with your application, we're presented with your resume and a cover letter. And we're looking for the highlights of your 5, 10, 30 year career. And what we want to see is what it is that you do. What is it that you have and how can I take that and put it towards my company to make it better.

And you just have to be able to put the best of the best upfront. It's like being your own cheerleader, especially, you know, through the entire HR process. Every question you get asked, you should never try and self-sabotage by diminishing your worth and comparing it and saying, Hey, everybody else is like me too.

Mike Koelzer, Host: It seems that if I was hiring somebody, if there was a category that said which one is not going to be an a-hole, you know, or like which one is not going to give me a head. Because, you know, maybe they have great ideas, but maybe they come so often with those ideas. And it's like every day it's a new idea.

And it's like, that's not, you know, I'm, I'm sick of turning this guy, you know, maybe it's even me. Maybe it's like, I'm sick of turning Joe down. He's got these ideas, but frankly, I just don't want that many ideas right now or whatever. 

You gotta be like a full-time psychologist. It seems 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: there's a lot of psychology that goes into this Mike And remember, we're dealing with people. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I hate people. 

Did 

I just say that when you're dealing with people, um, let's look into subjectively, right? Like you have a job, I'm a company. I'm wanting to hire a pharmacist and I want them to dispense medications. I want them to be immunized.

I want them to counsel and you know, I want them to do, you know, 10 other things. It's human nature to, for us to try and make it easy, buy it for us by [00:30:00] saying, okay, these are the 10 things I need. Uh, these are the five skill sets I need somebody to have, so I can, you know, match them all up. And then we just move forward.

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Reality of it is, that you have bad days. I have bad days. Clients have bad days. Patients have bad days. You're never going to find a hundred percent, you know, like spot on. Right. And I think that that's where, when we talk, when I talk to my clients, I need to understand who they are, both as a person and as a professional.

Mike Koelzer, Host: And then I need to understand what it is that drives them bonkers. Like 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: if they're not a people person working in retail, not. your gig Not your gig, focus on your strengths, right? Yep. Find your strengths, know what they are. Right. And sometimes you can just kind of figure that out on your own. Sometimes it requires conversation.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Um, and even beyond that, I talked to a lot of clients that are like, oh, I really, you know, I've been here at this level for so long and I really want to be a manager, a senior manager, a director, whatever. Great. Okay. Why? Well, that's the next, that's the natural progression. How do you know that's the natural progression for you?

Right? Because if you're not capable of managing. Number one yourself, number two, providing direction. Number three, creating strategy. Number four, conflict resolution, number five negotiations. If you can't do these things between you and the bank teller, right. Or human, the car salesman, just because you want a title means you're going to be a really bad manager.

So you can just kiss that dream. Goodbye to this is the natural progression. Your natural progression might be, let's do this for a year. I want to develop the skill sets. And then later on, I want to be able to help other people by doing that. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So there is a lot of psychology that goes through that. And sometimes that psychology takes a while.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I've had some clients that will say, look by. I know you're trying to help me. Uh, but the reality of it is, I need to get to that level before. Okay. Well, we can have this conversation until you're 50 and I'll help you, but I'm just telling you, it's a recipe for failure, and I'm going to give you examples of how that's already manifested based on the conversations we've had.

So yeah, lots of psychology. 

I still hate people. No I don't hate people, but 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: you know, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I guess as the owner of the pharmacy, I've got to either deal with people or make a decision not to deal with them. I don't have, 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: I guess, just 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the ability to avoid people. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Huh. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, let me ask you this. At one point in your career, you were in charge of teaching 60 different people how to do what you're doing.

What is the difference in your preference? Teaching people, your thoughts on this, or teaching an individual how to find their true role, which one do you like better? I 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: love what I do today. And, you know, had you asked me this question five years ago? I would've told you. I loved that too. Everybody goes through phases, right?

And I think that, you know, when I was working for Walmart and Anthem, I really enjoyed that because I could see what the goal was. The goal was to train a group of, you know, professionals to look for top talent, hire them, train them, develop them, promote them, move forward, and then repeat the cycle. So that way you're helping more patients.

It's one of the reasons why I got into recruitment and talent acquisitions. When, when people would ask me if you're a pharmacist and why would you leave all that training and education behind, the reality of it was because I only had a limited impact as one interview. I was going to see the same 2000 patients.

And I was only going to talk to 200 of them and build a relationship with 200 and really make a difference for 200. But in a higher role, I can now train 6, 15, 30, 60 people and help them identify and build relationships with other people and say, Hey, let me help you. So today what I enjoy the most is the fact that there is more psychology.

There's more relationship building. I know my clients, I know their spouse's names. I know their hurt, their pain points. What makes them tick, um, what really fascinates them and what drives them to the next level. It's not a transactional process. And I think for me that that's something that inspires me every morning, which is, Hey, if I'm going to do this and I'm going to help somebody get from point a to point B in their professional career, I don't want it to end when they say

Thank you. I just, I just got. I still want to have a relationship with them because in a year from now, they may have a kid in five years from now, you know, they may want to come back and say, Hey, that was great. I need your help again. And I think that that's the critical piece for me, which is having a one-on-one relationship, allows me to ask deeper, more meaningful, more [00:35:00] personal questions.

And that then allows me a few extra insights of how to be able to craft a narrative that is well received by a recruiter, a hiring manager in a company 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it's part of your service. And I'm not saying it should be by any means. Do you bridge the gap? Do you have placements that you're trying to fill for companies and recruiters, or are you all on the worker side, helping them reach out to these 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: people?

So I don't do placement directly, however, I have a lot of networks over 20 years of being in the business. And some of them do director level manager level placements. So when I have a client of mine that says, Hey, listen, I need your services because I know my, my past, I just can't put it in a resume. I don't know how to do it.

Right. Um, or a LinkedIn profile or whatever that is. I'll do that for them. And then I typically say, well, listen, I'm happy to connect you with executive search firms and you know, other professional search firms, if you're interested, right. I get nothing out of it. I'm more vested in your success. And I'm happy to do that.

So, yes, I don't do it directly, but I know a lot of friends that do, and I'm happy to always connect people because I think if it's a win-win win all around, why wouldn't I, I feel 

Mike Koelzer, Host: like you were doing a disservice, if you knew somebody and weren't able to make that connection if you had it. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Yep. Good call.

What 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What does your day look like? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Um, every day is a little bit different, but every day of the week, So, what I'll say by that is every Monday, there's always a structured plan and it looks different than a Tuesday and it looks different than a Wednesday. I'm an 18 hour guy. It's just part of my nature. I don't like to sit around and watch TV and I don't just go ahead and, you know, do something. My day starts at six 30 and it ends typically around 1130 at night.

It's just how I'm built. And as soon as I get up, um, I'll spend about maybe half an hour to 45 minutes on me, my wife and the cats. Uh, I have three kids. They're all grown. They all have their own kids. So at seven 30, everything kicks off. I'll spend about an hour online. I'll go ahead and respond to all of the comments, the likes and the questions that have been asked of me on LinkedIn, on my posts.

That's where I spend the majority of my time. You'll see me posting every day. Uh, I'm working on a few other avenues to be able to create content for LinkedIn. Um, and you know, even other platforms. Uh, now we're on LinkedIn is a standard thing. I will respond to comments. I will find pharmacists and other healthcare professionals that through second level connections, I'll introduce myself.

I will research their profiles and I'll give them just two or three compliments on whatever they've commented, posted on themselves, or just, you know, a thing on their profile. It's a way to build a relationship. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And these people aren't necessarily. In a job search. You're just communicating with them as a professional.

They don't necessarily know they're going to be looking for a job. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: It is correct. I don't target people that are open to work. I target pharmacists, medical doctors, nurses, and mostly it's. Do you know the connections that I see that are already part of that network? Because they already know my colleague.

You're more likely to accept my invitation and maybe I can add value to you. So I'll spend an hour on LinkedIn. Uh, and then beyond that, you know, I have typically a client load on average, an active client load of 10 clients at a time. So as I cycle through, I'll get another two or three, and then I finish two or three.

So of course that requires work. And whether they've chosen to work with me to help them redesign their LinkedIn profile or resume, or do career coaching or leadership development, I will block out one to six hours of the day to focus on a variety of clients and what their needs are. So that takes up a good amount of.

I think, uh, it'd be about an half an hour of the day to go pray and maybe talk to my mom, you know, I'll take about an hour or two break when my wife gets back and she works during the day. So when she gets home, I spend almost an hour or two with her, and then I go right back. Like for me, like developing relationships, talking to people on LinkedIn, I spend another hour on LinkedIn, just kind of reading what some of my network has been up to.

I'll make comments, I'll reach out to more people. The last couple of days I've actually been finalizing my website. So that's a homegrown process I'd like to play around with WordPress. I got a web. In the works. I hope to have it up and ready before. I'd like to say that January 10th will be my deadline for that.

Um, and then the other pieces, you know, rekindling and helping other healthcare professionals showcase themselves and really sharing what their journey looked like. So I'm in the process of actually recording a couple of, uh, episodes for my upcoming podcast as well. Uh, it's called the prescription for success.

And I have a lot of people that I just want to [00:40:00] give homage to because these were, these were people that paved the way for me to understand what leadership looked like and how to, you know, brand and showcase yourself and help other people in the process. So, yeah, to me, it's just a matter of a give-back.

Um, so that's, that's the majority of my time 

Mike Koelzer, Host: when you look at your clients, not everybody's built to want to move into management and so on like that, when you look at yourself, I know you have the skills for all that. You've already been on top of mountains with 60 people you've trained and so on. And now you've come back to the individual and the relationships and so on.

Is that your life moving forward or do you see yourself moving away 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: from that again? I don't know what the full future holds. Right. I can tell you what my plans and my dreams are. Right. But then I'm going to take a look at this year. Nobody has any clue what happens, but Hey, we made it through. Here's what I do know about myself.

I am naturally drawn to helping people and I'm naturally drawn to having the freedom to create ideas and visions, and then helping people achieve that goal. Not everybody is going to be a good or interested leader. And by that I don't mean that you're not gonna be a good leader. I just don't think everybody wants to be held to that level of responsibility and accountability.

Personally, I enjoy it. I like to be able to stay in this role as a consultant for two reasons. Number one, I get to leverage everything I've learned to benefit one person at a time without the overriding responsibility of these are the things you have to do by this year, or you're in trouble. There's a lot of freedom within this framework that I've kind of created for myself.

And I think that that's the joyous part because when you 

Mike Koelzer, Host: have a group overused analogy of a football team, you can't say, Hey, everybody's going to try to get to the goal line at different times. You have to say, we're moving as a team, two yards, four yards and so on, but with an individual, or let's say maybe even a couple, but an individual you can take.

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Time with that. That's the missing piece. Right. And I think that that's where, when I do leadership coaching for a lot of the pharmacists that have come to me, uh, and others, you know, when we talk about that, because sometimes a lot of them are simply they've been clamoring for a leadership role for years now, they have it.

And after the first three or six months, the bloom is off the rose and they're like, geez, oh, Pete man, I've got like six people on this team. And four of them are under performers. And I mean, I keep telling them, this is the goal. And I don't understand why they're not reaching the goal. Well, you're not talking to them in the language that they understand and you don't know their background and we have to be able to explore that.

So from a leadership perspective, you know, when you're in a role there's expectations put upon you by the person that's hired you, um, or that's the organizational objective that you have to meet at the same time, you have to have enough emotional intelligence to be able to decide. What's really the root cause of why someone is underperforming or what is the root cause or the, the, the, the carrot on the stick that's causing John to be like, Hey, he's a hundred miles ahead of everybody else.

Like, what is it? In the conversations that leaders have with their, with their teams, they can have open dialogue to help ascertain that learning, and then multiply it. I need, if I, when I've had an underperforming team member on my team, you know, these were open honest conversations. Like I know you're great at four things, right?

You're likely known for these four things and that's what makes you successful in this category. But there's like six other categories that we're all working towards and you're not working fast enough or you're not working well enough, what is it that's missing for you? Why are you not motivated by that?

So that's the one thing I enjoyed about being in a leadership role is to have that kind of dialogue. I know a lot of people shy away from that. They don't want to get personal. They don't want to. They just know, this is what we all have to do. So push, push, push, which causes more friction and more arguments, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: but you don't have that now 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: or not at this point.

And I don't plan on that when I choose to do it, it will probably be volunteering for a non-profit organization and helping them be able to achieve their organizational goal. Do I see myself going back to, you know, working for somebody and having, you know, certain objectives that I have to meet now?

Probably not. I've enjoyed that life. It's been a fantastic, wonderful learning experience. Right. But when you're doing it on your own volition for a nonprofit or for a volunteer organization, it allows you to say, this is no matter what we're all working. That's why we're members of this organization, right?

Whether it was society of human resources, management, Toastmasters, international rotary, Kiwanis, everyone has. And everyone that wants to belong [00:45:00] belongs because we all want that mission to happen. So I don't have to push you too hard. I don't want to have to wonder why you're still here. You're here because we all want to do the same thing now, can I help you get better at one aspect so we can do it faster?

Yeah. Can I teach you something? Yeah. But going back and working for another individual at this point, not on my bucket list, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you know, that's true about the mission because we as pharmacists and especially pharmacy owners, or I guess maybe even a pharmacy manager, I can pretend like I have the same mission, but I don't want, I mean, my mission is quite different from my high school and college kids.

I've got to the pharmacy and we happen to have molded our missions together to move forward. It's quite a different motivation. That's moving us forward, but we are able to use different motivations to work as a team. To move forward. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So you guys are in sync because you know what the objective is, what's pushing you.

It is different having been a pharmacy owner. I mean, I used to own two independent pharmacies. I had a clinical consulting company, a business consulting company at a pharmacy technician training company, like all of these wonderful, fantastic, uh, entrepreneurial opportunities that either I just created or fell into my lap, but you're right.

Like when I would hire my staff. Uh, the conversations where I listen, this is what the objective is. This is what our mission is. Here's what we want to do. Are you on board? And of course they're like, yes, I am. And then they were like, well, what's the paycheck, right? How does this, how does this benefit me?

Right? And so that's the part where we, you know, have the, those leadership conversations, which is to say, listen, this is inherently built in into the process and I totally get it. Like, this is what you need to support your family, your kids, your, your, your own ideals and your own mission. Uh, but together in this space, this is how we work together.

And you need to be able to give me your best and I will give you back my best to you. So you can achieve those things too. Will you ever 

Mike Koelzer, Host: have to have. Uh, staff of your own, whether it's some secretarial work, I guess that's the wrong word. I've got to say I'm 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: administrative 

Mike Koelzer, Host: as administrative assistant.

Will you ever have an employee again, or with all the great technology and the ease of doing things you just 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: won't need it anymore? Yeah. So there's a few things that I've learned how to be able to categorize in buckets. Right? There are some things that the tools, the automations that exist, the platforms that are out there.

You don't need to hire somebody to necessarily even do like calls. Like, you know, you can have somebody that can, you can create, there's a platform out there that you can automate that will call your clients or your, your call, your, your list and say, Hey, are you still interested in having a conversation or just checking in on you and all that, you can hire 

Mike Koelzer, Host: all that.

I mean, I hire about five or almost or something like that. Right? 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Exactly. So like the website designed for me, I think it's, I, it's a brand extension of myself. Right. And I don't feel that that's something I want to outsource. So that's why I do it. My good 

Mike Koelzer, Host: websites can be extremely personal as you build it.

It's almost like a canvas, you know, and someone might look at it and say, well, I didn't know that you could have hired it, but sometimes it's just a little tweak of how big the boxes are. What kind of font you want or something. Contemplative 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: you're right. I mean, it's a form of stress relief for me because I know that.

Yeah. Like I want to be able to say like, this is who I am, this is what I do. This is who I do it for. And these are the words that I'm going to use. And if you read it and if it resonates with you, then you want to talk to me. I mean, I will tell you that, you know, being a career consultant and a leadership coach, uh, and I do life coaching for men, but the fact of the matter is, is that all of these services, they're not applicable to everyone.

Right. There's just a chemistry that needs to exist between a client and a consultant. And I've had clients that have come to me that I said, you know, you were referred to me by a good friend of mine. And he says, you do good work. We had a conversation. And we realized that this is probably not the best chemistry.

It's not right. So I refer them to somebody else. And in other cases, I receive referrals because they want somebody that speaks like me, has my experience, has my knowledge comes from a healthcare background and can marry all of that in a way when we communicate it all makes sense. Um, so it's, it's different going back to your original question though, like yeah, there are some things that I know I can automate and I will be, but there are some things that I can't, and I think that, you know, new business development is one piece that I feel that it is it's important for me to do it, but at the same time, it is, uh, it is a numbers game, just like dispensing prescriptions for an independent pharmacy.

The more you do, the more profit you can potentially make. Um, and there's only 24 hours in a day. Uh, so leveraging the independent contractors out there for that purpose. Yeah. That's, that's something that's on the horizon in order to [00:50:00] continue. The trick. And that 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It might be that you don't have to hire someone for 40 hours a week and have them for the next 10 years in the same room as you've been there.

Now that it is new year's Eve, you got knee goals for 2021, or is it move forward with your daily plan that you had and keep working that 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: obviously it works. I appreciate that, Mike. I really do. Um, one of the things that I've, you know, do on a monthly basis. Um, and it's a little bit different for new years, but on a monthly basis.

Like I do like a lot of things, self-reflection, how far I've come, my different categories of focus. Um, and I just track my progress, right? Like every week I'm making sure, like, if I was going to say, you know, how many new networks, how many new connections that I make on LinkedIn this week? I track that.

Um, where did I start? Where am I, you know, today after 30 days, I am attracted to that. Um, I will tell you that, um, for 2021, um, I have actually tried to be more holistic and I do this in the last 10 years. It's been very helpful for me. I kind of take a look at my life and I break them down, break them down into five specific buckets.

Right. For me, categories are critical because each of these five buckets encompass where either I'm having. Um, or I'm falling short and if I don't correct it, my overall happiness struggles, so there's a career or, um, a financial component. There's a physical aspect. There's a mental or intelligence level check.

There's an emotional or relationship check in a spiritual religious check. I find that if I'm not like it, I always set a goal every year in each of these categories, and it's my job to make. If I'm not doing it every day, I'm doing it every week, something in this category, because I know that if I fall out of sync, if I, if I fight, if I fail to do something in one of these five categories, something just doesn't feel right.

And then it bleeds over into something else. So for 2021, I've made a couple of goals for my career or for my company. Uh, but then I've got one specific goal for each of these other categories. Right. So for physical, trying to get back into some decent workout, that's, you know, including a mixture of yoga, uh, walking, um, and just a little bit of strength training.

Um, and it's actually structured out. So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I Paul's gonna hit the tiny gym that he's building in his living room. That's great. How about you, Mike? What have you got? 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Try to get in a little bit better shape. In the last few days I went into the office at work and I did some, I did some knee push ups.

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So like on 

Mike Koelzer, Host: your knees, I did like 30 regular pushups, but then I think I pulled something in my shoulder. So non-doing knee push ups and I didn't call them 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: girl push. Good. I'm glad that you didn't write. Cause they're knee push ups. They're not 

Mike Koelzer, Host: girl push-ups 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: and they're perfectly, perfectly legitimate.

Their knee push ups. I mean, look, when you start off, right, you can do knee push-ups. You can do wall pushups, whatever gets you going, as long as you keep going. That's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: right. And I do something similar with yours. Someone told me one time, it's kind of like the five F's, you know, there's like faith, finance, fitness, family, and friends or something like that.

I forget what they were, but I kind of look at those, but here's the question. When you do your goals, are you setting a final goal? Goal or are you having daily practice? You know, in other words, like your fitness and your finance and your business stuff, are you setting like I want to get to this place or do you tend to set more?

I'm going to do something 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: daily. So it depends on the category for me. Um, let's take physics, right? I know that in the last three months I've put on an extra 15 pounds I might not look at, but Hey, it's there. And when my jeans start talking back, like, no, you're not, you're not, you're not buttoning that button.

I mean, that's a conversation I need to have in my case. I will say, listen, I need to lose 15 pounds and I'm going to give myself like whatever, four to six months to do it. But at the same time, I have to create a strategy on how I'm going to do that. So for me, it's like, Hey, every day I'm going to give 30 minutes in this category, this category, this category.

So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, strength training Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday is probably going to be yoga or walking. Um, and that way I can stay on track, right. Cause I can just say, I want to lose 15 pounds and you know, for six months, uh, but if I miss a walking session or a yoga session, That, that just that's the precedent.

So that's what helps me stay on track with those things. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: 15, you can almost control that enough, but some of the things like business goals, you almost sometimes have to set [00:55:00] practices. Cause you don't know where that practice is going to take you necessarily. Right. That's 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: true. That's true. But here's where I found that, you know, this is what I struggled with at the beginning of my career, which is, uh, you know, having conversations with myself like, oh, I want to be a leader.

Okay. What does that look like? I don't know, but I just want to be a leader. Well, it's so ambiguous and it's so nebulous, right? You don't know how to start. You don't know what direction to go in. So learning in that process, and this is what I teach my clients, is that you need to set a goal that's specific and measurable.

And it's time-bound because the reality of it is that even if it's a tiny little goal that just says, Hey listen, kickball, you need to lose three pounds. By the time we hit January 30, Right. Three pounds is something that I know can be done. Even if I just starve myself for two days and drink a lot of water and tea.

Right. So the same concept appears in the business world. So I can say, you know, for example, I want to have a hundred new clients that sign up with me, uh, by the time we hit April 31st, so I can test out the waters in January and says, okay, I'm, you know, I've, I've, I've invited whatever 15 people, uh, every day for the last four days.

And so that's, you know, 60 people, right? So I'll follow up. Email might be, Hey, I'm having this webinar. If you're interested, happy to share with you some insights. And if you're interested after that, we can have a conversation. Like there's a sales funnel process that goes through, which is like for every hundred people, 10 people are going to say yes.

And then for every 10 people that listened to your webinar, one of them is going to say, great. So. Run the numbers, right? That's how, that's how I typically find myself being able to say, if you're applying for a job in this particular space, let's recognize that this is the category that you want to move your career towards.

So all we're going to do is focus on this career or this level, and we're going to scour and source as many opportunities that fit this mold. You're going to apply to those of the number of applications you put in. This is the number of callbacks we're expecting. You can 

Mike Koelzer, Host: set those goals of a hundred X, whatever your X is, but the odds of hitting that are not going to be good, unless you do that funnel thought and say, okay, if I'm going to do a hundred, that means I need a thousand of this and 10,000 or whatever, you know, whatever the numbers are.

I need the exponent of this going down. Um, and, and those are goals you can hit, but if they're too far out there with no plan, That's just not going to 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: happen. Yeah. I, and you know, when I talked to clients that originally, when they first came to me, that's one of my questions. I usually ask them, like, if they're in job search, my question is how many applications have you applied for?

Or how many applications have you submitted in the last 30 or 60 days? And they'll tell me something anywhere between like five to 500. I said, great. In that number, how many callbacks have you received? How many emails did you get back that says, Hey, got your application w interested in talking to you, or somebody picked up the phone.

And if it's less than 10% like that to me is an indication of, Hey, there's a big problem with what you're submitting. Right? And now we need to tweak that, right. So yes, you can't necessarily control what the response is, but you can control the mechanism and your efforts in that process. And it also helps you recognize where the gaps are.

If you've applied to a hundred positions and nobody's responding or. Four or five people say, oh, I'm interested in talking to you. You, something's not right. Something's not right. Same thing in the sales process. Like if you're pitching somebody, if you're saying, Hey, listen, I really want, you know, I can offer you these services and they're like, no, thanks.

Or they go see you, then there's something wrong with the process of trying to entice somebody to help them. You have to work on that. So that's, that's some of the things that I do. And some of the things that I have to consistently go back and tweak on my own, your own goals and things like, I mean, let's, let's take the physical side, right?

Like if I say I'm going to go work out for 30 minutes and do yoga, um, and after a week or so, I'm like, wow, the needle did not move. I am still, you know, 15 pounds over. Well, maybe I need to actually increase that to 60 minutes or maybe I need to, you know, crank up the heater in my house so that it's like 90 degrees.

I'm doing hot yoga at home. Cats are sweating and 

Mike Koelzer, Host: shedding. I go on ways with my fitness and years ago, a couple of the family members turned them and the rest of us. And I was a power of attorney and I took the brunt of the attacks from two of my siblings. And so I got quite anxious. And so I went on some anxie Lytics, but I told myself I want to also get talk therapy.

Cause I just don't want to depend on these. I want to do both. And so this therapist, she said to me, because of my advice, I'm not a heroin addict. I'm not a drunk in the street. I do things that are legal. W w what's the word for that? When you do something like that. [01:00:00] Excepted. Well, basically I eat a lot of sugar cereal.

That's what I'm getting at. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: If that's your vice Mike, I mean, you're like a Saint, you're just a Saint 

Mike Koelzer, Host: here. A lot of sins get really bad press. You know, whether it's, you shouldn't be adulterous, you know, you shouldn't Rob a bank. The one that seems more socially acceptable is to be a glutton. So I go to the therapist, so she sees me then putting on weight because of my three bowls of cereal at night.

And she says, you might want to try some yoga, you know? So I say, okay, then about three months later, she says, we might want to add something to that. Yoga.

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: I started yoga earlier this year before the pandemic. And I was really hesitant. I was like, Yeah, this is not for me, but I'm trying to be, you know, my wife was like, you need to do this. You just need to go find Amy, you go to a 

Mike Koelzer, Host: class. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: That's what I need to do. Yeah. Well, I tried doing it at home at first and I was like, this is.

It just felt weird, but I went to like my lifetime fitness, which is like a bite a mile away. And I was like, fine, we'll go through this. And it was really nice. I was like, okay. Yeah, I feel a lot more limber. I feel better. I can focus a bit more and everything was great until like February 23rd, which is like when Illinois, we just went into ballistic shutdown mode.

And I was like, well, I guess that ends that. Well, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: what I really like about talking to you and seeing your smiling face and talking about your day as you really love what you do, it's a passion to you. And my wish for all the listeners, you know, is that they, you know, sometimes you just have to trudge through it and you have to put the meat on the table.

But if you can do that with the passion that I see in you, I would wish that for everybody. So thanks for what you do. And it's been a pleasure talking with you. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Thank you, Mike. I really appreciate you having me on your show. And I have to tell you, this has probably been the most comfortable and most.

Awesome interviews I've had in awhile. Um, you just make it very natural, very comfortable. Um, and I feel like we've known each other for years, so we'll continue this relationship in some capacity, but thanks for making it a so-called 

Mike Koelzer, Host: as I talked to more and more people, especially those that are maybe, you know, my age or whatever, is that, you know, you're on the same team.

You've kind of made it through this crazy world. And we realize that even though we're different, we're all closer than we realize. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: Yeah. I always tell people all the time, like no matter where you come from, no matter what you believe in, like we're all human beings. We all have the similar experiences you love.

I love, you know, you might like count Chocula or in your case, frosted mini wheats. Um, uh, I'm a honey nut Cheerios kind of guy, but you know what? We can all just get along. We can share 

Mike Koelzer, Host: The real bad one for me is, um, honey bunches of oats. Oh, 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: those are good. That's cracking the box. You 

Mike Koelzer, Host: talked to a lot of guys who are maybe under some stress and so on.

A lot of them do that sugar buzz at night. And the thing about it is if you get that in there and you get that stuff, like just at a certain consistency, not like soaking in it. So like it's expanded, but you know, just soft enough. It's scary how quickly you can down those calories, you know, without even thinking of it.

Blinken they're down. 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: So I've learned to be able to look at my clock and at seven o'clock it's just shut down for me. Like there's no food, nothing passes my lips, but it took me like two or three years to get to that point. Is that what you do past seven past 7:00 PM? There's nothing. So I can eat at four.

I can eat at five. I can eat at 6, 6: 45. I mean, I don't exactly eat healthy. Right. Clearly the extra 15 pounds is obvious, but once it's seven o'clock like, now it's like, okay, that's it. You're done. You can drink as much water as you want, like a ball, but nothing, nothing else passes these lips. And that goes until about 9:00 AM.

What time do you go to bed? 12, 11, 30, really? Yep. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, my problem is I'm like I'm Billy Mick, I guess I've binge and purge, but I've never purged. I shouldn't joke about that. Other people that have that problem, but I'm a binger, but I just never have gotten around to the purge part. So one of these years, maybe I'll pick up that 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: habit.

It's the greatest way to end my year, man. I just want you to know that, like, this is awesome. Oh, that's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: awesome. Well, thank you. And I look forward to a long friendship, so I appreciate you talking today. Me 

Iqbal Atcha, Pharmacist, MBA: too. Me too. Thank you. God. Bless. Take care. Bye-bye God bless you too.