Pharmacy Social Media Groups | Deborah Bowers, PharmD

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Well, hello, Deborah. Hi Mike, for those who haven't come across you online, introduce yourself to the listeners and tell the listeners why we're talking today. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: My name is Deborah Bowers and I own a pharmacy in York, South Carolina called Yorkville pharmacy. And, um, the reason why we're talking today is because of the social media Facebook group that I started, um, a year, a little over a year ago.

and, um, just the interactions with that and how that's developed 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Are pharmacists just a bunch of complainers? Are we just a bunch of complainers? Yes and 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: no. So. I think we need a healthy place to complain. Just kind of get out your frustrations and nobody really understands what we are going through. Not, not even other business owners understand.

Um, so like, like the rotary club, for example, they wanted me to, you know, join the rotary and go to a lunch meeting, you know, from like 12 to one or something like in the middle of the day. Well, When you're a single pharmacy owner and you're the only pharmacist for me to go to a lunch meeting for an hour.

Like I gotta pay somebody else, like four hours to come in and either work the morning or work the afternoon shift. So I could go to this one, one hour lunch meeting. So like not even business owners who are in pharmacy understand. Pharmacy. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I was in a Qantas group, you know, similar service club. And I was in that for years.

And I started working at the pharmacy more now, lately because of some staff changes. And I told him I had to bow out of being in the group. And the next question was, well, maybe you can come by and, and speak sometime about whatever and right. And I thought, well, that didn't. Catch very well. You didn't really understand my, my, my thing of saying I, if I could come and do that, I'm sure she was just being nice to me, you know, but if I could go and do that, I would've been able to get away, but I was not a good member.

The last few years that I was active, this is probably 2012 to 15 because the restaurant was right next door to the pharmacy and. For the listeners. We probably had 30 people at these lunches, you know, and we would talk about, we'd have a speaker and we'd have somebody we'd have lunch and share some stories and stuff.

But I was a terrible member because I would come and I had just left the pharmacy literally 15 seconds before I stepped into lunch in my mind was everywhere. It was really, really tough to go to those. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: That's why I developed the group. Nobody really understands your business. Like another person who owns the exact same business, cuz not even regular business owners understand the nuances and stuff.

And so what I found to myself doing was, you know, I had, I don't know, five or 10 people, you know, like regularly in my list here in South Carolina that I would contact when I had questions or. Hey, have you seen this? Whatever? Well, I felt like I was just like wearing those people out, you know, you're rather new with 

Mike Koelzer, Host: your business at the time.

Right? 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Well, this has been all along. So my pharmacy's actually been open for 18 years. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You started when you were 11 . 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Yes. We'll go with that. You must have 

Mike Koelzer, Host: been one of those, uh, a child prodigy is 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: no, I opened my store with a partner when I was 24. So I had just graduated pharmacy. And, um, I was miserable with my job that I took at a big box chain.

It didn't take me about six months to be like, um, this is not what I want my life to be like. And, um, I was dumb enough. That's a key because I had no idea about independent pharmacy at all. I had no idea what I was getting into, so I was literally dumb enough. Right. Um, to just be like, if this doesn't work, I'll just go take my crappy job back.

So I jumped and I mean, it's been the best thing. Um, I had no idea that I wanted to own an independent pharmacy or that I wanted to be an independent pharmacist, but it's definitely become apparent. I do very well at being my own boss. And I don't like to take orders from others. , 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That's a big part of it, I think.

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: And I like to be able to do what I wanna do when I wanna do it. So like for example, COVID testing, you know, big, hot thing right now. Well, I mean, I just spent the time researching it. Do my due diligence. And then I just turned it on, just did it. Um, you know, I didn't have to get 15 people's approval [00:05:00] to start doing it in my store.

So that's the part I really like. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I love that about the independent pharmacy, I guess, any business and. Is that you can make a decision like I've, I've said before on here, one day I went from, we were doing same day delivery and I just said, let's go to next day delivery. And we'll make the people that want the antibiotics and the pain medicine make them feel special by doing the same day.

I made that decision. 10 minutes, you know, it was so refreshing not to be on these boards and have to prove this to everybody, you know, and that's a really nice thing about it. So Deborah, you were, then over this time, you're asking the people, these questions and so on, and you thought I better bring this out a little bit at the time.

Then when you started the group, were there other options or was there also. The owner inside of you said, Hey, I don't wanna follow what someone else is doing. And follow the rules of that. I'm an independent pharmacy owner, unless I'm gonna have an independent group or you won't be able to find anything.

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: So I had been on some message boards, um, but they required large dues. To be a part of their group. So even though I kind of found them helpful at times, um, I didn't feel like the amount of money that they were asking for per month was. Cost effective. They 

Mike Koelzer, Host: had their own message boards. They might have bought it from somewhere, but basically they had their own message board somehow with their logo and stuff on 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: it.

Right. Correct. Gotcha. Um, and then with some other organizations we had, um, talked about starting some message boards with other organizations that everybody kept touting them. Antitrust and, and all that kind of stuff. So they never would actually follow through cuz the liability was too great. There was too much to lose 

Mike Koelzer, Host: because they had to protect the other part of their business.

That's right. The message board was not the only thing. It was an add on and they're saying, we're not gonna, we're not gonna take the chance of our wholesale business or whatever, getting in trouble because of 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: this. Right, right. So I feel like, you know, sometimes even. Even though, like I said, the people in South Carolina are great.

The reason why I started the group had nothing to do with the people in South Carolina, not wanting to help. I just felt like I was. every time I turned around, I had a question that I wanted somebody else's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: feedback. And then you feel a little bit, even though they didn't say it, you might feel a little bit needy or guilty or, or something.

And it's like, why don't we spread this out a little bit? And 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: The other thing is, it's not just South Carolina, it's, you know, other people in other states are experiencing something a little different and you kind of need to understand what's happening somewhere else. So I just, one day I was just like, well, Why not like I can start this, if it doesn't work, then you know, I'll just close it down.

No big deal. Um, but what, and let me go back a little bit, because at the time my business went through a horrible cash flow crunch and I was doing everything under my power under the sun. To try to make sure that my store survived. And during that time I felt really alone. Um, I'll be honest, your pride sets in, and you don't want other owners to kinda realize you can't keep your act together or whatever the situation is, or, you know, it seems like all of the other owners have their act together.

And so. During that nine months, it was the worst nine months of the whole time. My store's been open even since the beginning, when we were slow. Um, it was literally just off. I felt so alone and I was like, pharmacies are dropping like flies. I, I, I need to do something to help that I need to. Try to help others.

And I got through it, so I should be able to help some others go through it. So there's this, this natural just community service type. Just genes, I guess I have, I just, I just like to help. I like to do, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And it's typical, I think for independent pharmacists, you see a lot of that. People just want to help.

That's 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: why I kind of did it because once I came out on the other side of that, I mean, at first I was embarrassed because I even got myself in that situation. Yeah. And that's the other reason why I didn't really, I didn't really wanna [00:10:00] call my South Carolina friends and say, listen, I'm failing here and y'all seem to have your act together.

And I don't, you know, help me. And then I kind of just decided that there, and it, and about this time, everything was, it was 2016. So like everything in the pharmacy world was being turned upside down. And I just kind of felt like we all needed to stop feeling like we were all by ourselves and, and start maybe helping each other instead.

considering each other as enemies in, in essence, our com competitors. So that's why I started the group. Just to see, because I thought it would be better for people to share their information when they had time to share it too. And then you would find out who actually knew more about things and maybe under South Carolina, we're living under a rock and we needed to learn about something else.

Wyoming is doing. Montana's doing whatever 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I remember back probably 25 years ago, probably ran into the same problems that you might've run in without wanting to share too much with people that you're close to, but I'd be part of the county pharmacy association or pharmacist association. We had a great time.

Once a month, we get together and we'd have beer and. Potato skins on the pharmacist association. I don't think we were supposed to, but we always did in the true form of a lot of different groups. You could have pulled an agenda out from 10 years ago, and it would've said the same thing, how to, you know, but the main thing was just getting together for camaraderie, but that quickly went away as these pharmacies are dying out.

So now these meetings you're with a lot of chain pharmacists and so on, and you're sharing war stories maybe of that, but. In the detail you needed to, with other parts of the business that you would have to with independent pharmacy owners 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: also. When I started this, So, you know, an independent pharmacy, when you open your store, I mean, you're kind of tied to it for a while.

So, you know, I wasn't really being as involved with the association as I had been in the past because you're working six days a week, you know? Um, I still did do some things, but then I had babies. And when you have babies, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Those babies always get in the way. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Yes. They start taking up a lot of that extra time there.

And so, you know, there was a time period, um, where I don't know, probably about five, seven years where literally. I was by myself, so to speak because yeah, you know, I couldn't go there because my kid had a T-ball game or I couldn't go to this meeting because there was this family function, et cetera. So especially women, I feel more than men and that may be a sexist comment.

I don't mean to be sexist, but I do feel that women owners feel a little bit more lonely than men owners do. And I also find. All of the people that were going to the associations were all men, not women. So like there would be one or two of us women floating around. And I think we got dismissed because we were kinda women.

Um, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And now people would say, nah, I don't really see that, but, but we're talking now. You know, 20 years ago. Yeah. Close to that. When, uh, women were the minority now as men are the minority as far as the number of pharmacists, I suppose. But yeah, that was certainly, uh, an issue where you would feel maybe pushed aside a little bit.

So when you want to make a group, are there other groups? Out there that you could have jumped into, or did you say I'm gonna do this because I wanted a little bit more oversight on this? 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Honestly, I didn't really know of a lot of other groups, the one group. That was specific to the pharmacy that I knew about, and that I was a part of.

They only allowed females in and in the independent pharmacy world, as you said, there are a lot more males than there are females still. And, you know, I felt like that was sexist, you know? Um, I understand, I understand what the purpose was. Um, but I also felt like I was in this group. independence just got dogged.

I mean, you know, so, um, a lot of it was made up of, um, Chain pharmacists and, and granted, there are awesome chain pharmacists out there, but like whenever I would say something like, let's talk about DIA RFIs or something, like they were saying about how horrible their work [00:15:00] conditions were and da, da, da, da, da.

I would make some comment about, well, you know, I mean, DIR fees. Going up. So that means there's less money to spend. Like I wasn't really taking up for the corporate people, but I was just explaining how difficult it was. Like me personally, I was having to ask more and more of myself and more and more of my staff just because reimbursements were less and less and less.

Um, and it just seemed like the independence that would make comments got attacked instead of, I don't know, embraced. So then I was kinda like. We just probably should have our own group. Um, and that's really because that group was very successful. But it didn't meet the independent pharmacist's needs.

So 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You start off then Deborah. And then what was your first thought about vetting? You probably had a bunch of people that wanted to come in a bunch of sales people and different things like that. How did you start getting back then? What was your system? 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: My system back then basically I had. The person told me their information and then, and what pharmacy they were from.

And then I tried to find them. And then that became apparent just after a short while that I just couldn't keep up with that. I just couldn't do all that work. I just couldn't keep up with it. Um, so then I had a, um, a part-time employee that just came in and she had done some side work for me at my house and she did really well.

And. So then I was like, well, you know, would you, would you like to come to the pharmacy and, and do some stuff? So not a technician. She can only work like two hours a day. I mean, it's very little, but so she came and like she does our filing and puts vis out and MTS the trash and does some deliveries and stuff like that.

So like, she's not really a technician. So I kind of put her on it. Well, then it just, you know, it just became like, it was so much time. So then I was like, okay, this just isn't working. So 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, let me ask you this though. Did you have some spies, do you think that you couldn't find people because they were frauds?

Yes. Tell me about that. This is like James Bond stuff now. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Well, shortly after the group got started, I definitely know some wholesalers wanted to get in there. Because some wholesalers were getting a bad rap. And some wholesalers weren't, I'll be honest with you. I think the pharmacy industry did not want us all communicating.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Of course not well, seriously. I mean, we're like, I don't know all the ins and outs about it, but you know, the whole me too movement and all that kind of stuff. I mean, when people get together and start bringing light to stuff, the people who wanted things in darkness, they don't want that. I 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: can't tell you exactly who all the people were.

I have my suspicions, but that's when it kind of became apparent. Well, so first of all, number one problem was I couldn't find links. To a pharmacy that got very difficult. Um, so then we started trying to call the pharmacies, um, and I had some people laugh when we called to say who we were, um, and why we were calling.

They just thought that was hysterical. I think they thought it was like, not real. So then that's when I was like, people need to provide their own information. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: They had to send it to you versus you tracking it down. Correct. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Gotcha. Um, so that kind of moved things along a little bit, but there were so many.

Yeah, so many requests. Then we also had, um, some instances where like they were owners and then they sold their store and now they were working for an insurance company kind of thing. So then it became apparent. Whoa. Like not only do we have to make sure that they're who they say they are when we start and let them in the group, but we kind of have to continue to make sure that they are still in the rat race with us.

So, um, then it became, wow, we're gonna have to do this more than once. Um, To keep the integrity of the group, because I think that's why people are so free to just talk about their experiences is because they're not being judged. It's not someone on the outside looking in. It's actually people who are in the same transition as you.

Um, and so they're probably a little freer too. Actually say what's going on or talk about the elephant in the room or, or whatever, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: if they were anonymous. That's one thing I 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: didn't want to be anonymous. I wanted people to understand. Who they were talking to, like when comments were being made, maybe where they were coming from.

I do allow people to post anonymously, um, on sensitive [00:20:00] subjects, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: But in, in general, if they were anonymous, well, you've seen it. You get statements where people are saying things they would never say face to face. Right. But when you're not anonymous, You gotta watch yourself because your wholesaler might be watching in and maybe doing something.

I don't know what they would do either. Mm-hmm but something negative against you. I mean, maybe I'm thinking it too deeply, but people want that freedom to think that people are not watching them. We've 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: also had people who have taken screenshots of the group and shared it with their wholesalers. so, I mean, there's always a risk, but I think.

Overall the group does. I think it does two things. I do think that people need to complain. You need to have an outlet to let go of that frustration and kind of commiserate with people who understand, because, you know, I can complain. To my boyfriend, but he doesn't really understand he's not in my world every single day and gets it.

But another business owner, when I say certain things, another pharmacy owner, and I say certain things and they're like, oh my gosh, I know. You know, so I think there needs to be an outlet for complaining, but I think it also needs to be an outlet for what we can do to help each other. So I think. For the most part, there is a pretty good balance.

You know, a lot of people just want to know things on their own, but if you see me post it's usually because number one, I really do wanna know something. Or number two, maybe I do feel like it's been a little bit more complaining than helping lately. So I need to kind of generate some positive conversation or at least some productive conversation.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, at least a nice thing. The live part of it is years ago, probably 15 years ago. I kind of swore off reading the letters to the editor for some of the top pharmacy magazines. And a lot of that was just because people were bitching about stuff and at least with the live group. You might have that, but at least you have support for that, or maybe some answers for that, but it's not this beef that has gone out and then just stays out there with no response.

Deborah, do you have to be concerned at all about, and I don't know a damn thing about this, but do you have to be concerned at all about libel or. Collusion, you know, as far as pricing and stuff, do you think about that at all? Or, or do you just say no, it's part of the social network, just like we see Twitter with that.

I don't know, two 30 claims or whatever the hell that's called, where they're not responsible for the editorial part of it. That kind 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: of did cross my mind when I started the group and then I was kinda like. What are they gonna take from me? I mean, it's just, it's just me, you know? I mean, all they can say is we're gonna shut you down.

You know, we're shutting the group down, you know, it's not like there's another business entity that is tied to it, et cetera, et cetera. Now. I say that now that it is 2018 . But you know, I feel like the pricing and those kinds of conversations need to occur. I don't think there needs to be conversations like, oh, we're all going to close our pharmacies all on the same day and have a blackout or something.

Like, that's not what I think needs to occur, but I think. The whole darkness needs to come to light. That's how we ended up with this problem. I almost said it, some organizations are, is, is, you know, reimbursing at $10, but then they're paying the pharmacies that they own $110. Well, how was it in any equation?

Is that okay? The reason 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That got done because people. Well, a lot of different reasons because you thought you were gonna get excluded, but you felt alone and you didn't know what the next guy down the street was gonna be doing. And those kinds of things. So you're not saying let's do a blackout or let's all set our minimum price at this or something, but just back and forth, knowledge seemed reasonable, 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: right?

Just knowing what the market is. So of course, this has evolved over time to where the Facebook group was no longer. It was just a headache. I wasn't getting to do what I really wanted to do, which was help other people because I was spending all of my time vetting. Um, and you would not believe the messages that I get.

Um, just from other people in the group that don't feel comfortable posting in the group, but they, like, want to know something. So like I've now become the person that's. I guess a beacon kind of person 

Mike Koelzer, Host: kind of their private therapist almost for the 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: group. Yeah. In some essence. So like just the [00:25:00] traffic that I get because I run the Facebook group.

Literally, it was taking me so much time. Um, it was like 15 to 20 hours a week and I wasn't even really participating 

Mike Koelzer, Host: anymore. I imagine there's vetting people. There's also, you've gotta keep an eye on some whacked out entry that maybe came from a fake person anyways, and is just like going off on something.

And you can tell they're not really part of the group, but also you were getting personal stuff. With that too, right. That they wanted your opinion or this or that. And you were getting all three of those. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Correct. And probably the most common thing was I was getting messages. Why have I not been added to the group yet?

so, so. You know, there were a lot of people, I guess, saying some positive stuff and telling other people, Hey, you really need to be a part of this group. But the problem was, I just couldn't keep up with who I wanted. On any given day, we had three to 600 people that wanted to join. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And a lot of times people wanna join because they have a question at that time.

That's why they're joining. I mean, some people will just say, I want to be part of this, but some people actually have something they wanna be involved with, like in the next two hours. And you're like, no, it's two weeks or 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: whatever. It was getting to the point where people were requesting to be a part of the group and it was taking.

Probably close to three to four months to actually get to them because there were so many people ahead of them when, when it was just, just sucking up so much of my time. And I couldn't actually do what I really wanted to do. Um, which was a part of the group. I was like, okay, something's got to change and this is what I think is different.

So I think my group is different because it does have the vetting where. None of the other groups that I've known about, actually they ask you questions, but they never check any of that out. And people lie. I'm sorry. They just do 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the people that don't need to lie. Don't lie. But the people that shouldn't be there and wanna be there, but you're gonna have liars out there.

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Right. So, you know, I definitely was adamant that the vetting has to be a part because I feel like that's what makes our. Different and makes it safer, you know, for people to interact and actually bear their souls, et cetera, et cetera. So I thought about it long and hard, and then I was like, well, two things are gonna have to happen either.

I shut the group down because it was just literally sucking up so much of my life and it was no fun whatsoever or, you know, I came up with a way to keep it open. And then of course that came with hiring somebody to actually do this as part of their job and having the fees and that kind of thing. But you would have thought that I was asking for a million.

Dollars when I did that. And then I had a lot of people, you know, that wanted to volunteer, to do certain things. And you know, the reason why I didn't go that route is, um, I've been in a ton of volunteer organizations, a ton, a ton. And just like with any organization, there is like 10% that do all the work.

But there's like 80% that want all the credit, the 80 or 90% that, you know, they wanna say they did it too. Number one, I know how busy we all are as independent pharmacy owners. And I knew about how much time they could give. And I know it's not much. And then secondly, you can't fire volunteers. Oh, that's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: a huge 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: thing.

So if you're not doing it right, or you're not doing it at all, Then pharmacy is a small world. And I was like, you know, I just don't, I can't fire you, you know? And then I'm gonna have this bad relationship, da, da, da, da. I was like, I just don't wanna do that. That's very wise then. Um, there was also the issue of.

The number of people who don't qualify for the group, but that have begged me to get in is so long. I can't even tell you how many people there are. And I do think some of them have pharmacy at heart, but they don't meet the criteria. And I've been very adamant on that. And I've had to kind of. I know, I can say no, I don't know how many other people can say no.

Well, you're 

Mike Koelzer, Host: volunteering, you removed, uh, one or two spaces from it. And they haven't felt the same negative effects you have. And so you put all those things together and naturally people get more 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: lenient. Mm-hmm . I was just kind of like, this is how it's gonna happen, but I'm gonna tell you I took some feedback.

Um, I made some changes to what I was originally gonna do, but still kept most of the original intent intact, but you would have [00:30:00] thought. That I was trying to steal people's babies by some of the private messages that I received. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the private ones, huh? Oh, 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: That's too bad. The private ones were way worse than any of the public ones.

Um, I had one guy tell me that he was going to expose me for just the kind of person that I was and I responded back and I. I hope you do meet me in person. And we'll see that I am the most genuine person you're ever gonna meet. And that my goal is not to make a ton of money. My goal is just to be able to keep this as a viable source and keep its integrity.

But yeah, it was, it was pretty. It was, it was, I mean, they were downright mean , 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I don't know. You know, they always talk about business, you know, they say, well, Most customers just go away. They don't complain and you should cherish them. That's not the word, but you should, um, appreciate the customers that do come and complain because you learn from them and this and that.

And it's like, I don't know. Some of that's a bunch of horses*t I'd probably like. Maybe half come back, but the other half it's like, I'm not gonna satisfy that anyways. I don't know why the ratios I'll get people that say, Hey Mike, I transferred my stuff over to, so and so, and I wanna let you know why, and I'm like, Thanks for being a customer over the years.

And we'll see you later, if you want me to know why, tell me before you transfer it so we can work on things, but if you left because you were angry at something I don't wanna know on the backside, I just don't. 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: So, um, I finally, after so many people were positive and negative, um, we just. I just kind of just came to myself as like, well, either I'm shutting it down or this is the way we're going.

Like, I just, I just got to that point. I mean, that, that was an easy part. I did. Um, so I did take some feedback. Um, so I, um, did they, I. I did the, you know, like each fee could include a, uh, like a husband and a, a wife, a spouse, or it could have two people. um, so, you know, one store could have two people. Um, I also, um, thought that the people who are the most engaged, um, Facebook will tell you the top 100.

Um, so I felt like the people who are the most engaged they're they are, who are helping make, you know, page B successful. Um, so those people don't pay the fee. They still have to go through the vetting and everything, but they don't pay the fee. Um, And so I started this pro, so I, I announced it and had discussions about it in July because I was spending my vacation.

This is what happened. I was spending my vacation, trying to vet people for Facebook. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you always have that point where you say this is 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: it right? So that was my, this is it moment. So I made the announcement in July, took feedback, kind of came up with a plan in August, and hired an assistant. Got them kinda onboarded.

So we just really didn't even start this whole process until the end of September-ish. First thing we did was get everybody, the top 100 people. We sent them all messages, cuz like, congratulations, you don't have to pay the fee for your, you know, being a very active part. And then we are going through the alphabet.

So, um, we've done the A's and we've done the B's and my assistant has gotten some nasty. Messages back in some respects. And I, I already told her, I was like, This is not gonna be some people's cup of tea and it's fine, you know, if they can't. Oh, and I changed the fee, I was originally gonna do $75 and I changed it to $60.

So it's literally $5 a month. And does Facebook, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: do they have a way to do this? No, there's not like a form or a turnoff 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: or one kind of thing. No, there's not. Um, so I've had to develop all of that on the back end. So I had to set up a website, which is, um, STEMM. So some other stuff, which I needed to do anyway, because I do have the desire to help people.

So I started coaching. So this is part of my coaching, um, website offering, so to speak. So we just kind of started, I think, Honestly, our counts are down, cuz this is taking a while. A lot of people don't check their messengers. A lot of people would message me and say, Hey, I've been taken outta the group.

And I'm like, yeah, you should have got a message from my assistant. They're like, no, I didn't. I'm like, okay, I'll have a check on it. Like, so there's a lot of that going back and forth. [00:35:00] So the numbers have gone down, but honestly I'd rather have the numbers go down and have way more people participating, um, than to.

A large group with 10% of the people participating 

Mike Koelzer, Host: overall on this group, would you have. Did something different or not done it at all? Or has this been okay? Despite all of the harassment, I 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: I think the good that it has done for independent pharmacy has been worth the harassment in those private messages.

I have received people who did tell me how alone they felt or who did say, Hey, that idea that you gave me, it really worked or. So, and so gave me this idea from your Facebook group and that's really worked for us. And so. Even with, I mean, I think it's just like our normal day. So even though we got crap to deal with with PBMs, we've got, you know, every time you turn around, there's something else that you're like, oh, what else can we take?

Kind of thing. They're still, you know, Mrs. Jones will send you a thank you note and say, thank you so much for. Meet me to do my kids' COVID test at nine o'clock at night, because it was the only time we could be available. You know, like it's those little tiny things every once in a while that just keep you going that much further.

So I think there are definitely benefits. Outweighed some of the misgivings that some are misdirections from 

Mike Koelzer, Host: people. It's probably a little hard. I know with me, like with the podcast at the store, you take a lot of grief, but you have to sometimes, but you have to return all the phone calls basically, or at least somebody does and you've gotta make sure everything is taken care of down to the last tablet.

And I told myself, I wasn't gonna do this with the podcast. I was gonna make it fun. So I've got some unanswered questions. Emails that I never would do for the pharmacy, but I've done it here. I left some people hanging. I've left some people that maybe had opinions on things hanging a little bit, but I can't say I'm proud of that, but I knew from the beginning, I wasn't gonna let this bother me at any time.

Either of us are basically a world. Game a world field versus, you know, the thousands of people around you. You really can't control what's coming your way. Like you could as just a independent person in your neighborhood, taking care of each single request, 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: I've done a lot better with setting boundaries.

So. Even though I, I get messages at all hours of the night on weekends or whatever. If I'm doing something with my family, then it can just wait. You know, I had to learn that because my natural just nature is I gotta get it done. I gotta get it done. Cuz people are depending on you, et cetera, et cetera.

But you have to do what you can do in the re and that has to be enough. It just has to be enough. So that's kind of how I've taken it. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, when you got onesies and twosies of things, you always think, well, I can return that call to Mrs. Smith on the way home or something. But when it's, you know, a hundred things sitting there, you gotta set your boundaries and, uh, it's none of your business or none of my business.

And it's the owner singing. And it's a big world with a lot of opportunity and it, somebody thinks they can do it better. Well, there's your, there's your keyboard and start doing it. And that's 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: kinda what happened. You know, a lot of people were like, I can. Well, one person said, well, you could go spend 15 or 20.

If you wanna just make money, you could go spend 15 or 20 hours a week working in your store. And I'm like, yeah, that's my point is I'm spending 15 or 20 hours a week trying to help everyone else. And I can't keep doing that. I was like, but I'm not, I'm also not trying to get rich off this. I'm just trying to basically cover the cost to hire somebody on the other hand.

It is my idea. It was my idea to do the vetting and then they're like, I could just go start my own group. And I'm like, yeah, you can. And then you'll understand exactly where I'm at. You'll 

Mike Koelzer, Host: be in the group in a few months asking questions about it . 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, that's, that's your prerogative.

And it won't hurt my feelings at all. I mean, either, either you're okay. Because you get the value from it and if you're not okay, it's okay too. I'm old enough that we can have different opinions and we can move on from it. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. It's a 

Mike Koelzer, Host: big world with a lot of resources.

Well, Deborah, thanks so much for your time. It's been great talking to you. Pleasure to meet you. Well, thanks 

Deborah Bowers, PharmD: for having me. Yeah. And thanks for all you do. I'll see if I can keep it up. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm doing anything, right? Like it takes me 30 minutes to figure out how to get on this recording.

Mike Koelzer, Host: oh, well I know how that goes. I hang around my kids in the they'll. Let me know. All right, Debra, you take. Bye. Bye. Thanks. Bye bye.