The player is loading ...
New episodes every Monday. May we send you occasional email updates?
Simon Szewach, Executive Chairman of Gelteq, shares the business journey behind an innovative gel-based drug delivery system. From startup funding and strategic partnerships to FDA hurdles and market disruption, hear how Gelteq is creating new opportunities in pharmacy. A must-listen for those inspired by entrepreneurial challenges and industry transformation.
This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.
Mike: Simon, introduce yourself to our listener
Simon!: Sure. My name is Simon Szewach. I am the Executive Chairman and
Co Founder of Gelteq Limited. Gelteq Limited is a biotechnology company
. We [00:01:00] founded it in Australia in 2018, and what we've done is we've created a new and innovative oral gel based delivery system for drugs and nutrients. So it really is a, I guess, an alternative to pills, powders, and tablets, this gel solution that we've come up with.
So we're able to put
almost any compound into a gel and keep it stable. Whether it be a protein, a fat, a vitamin, an oil, a medication, a plant extract, we can put anything into a gel base and keep it stable. And then we've got a few other bits and pieces that are able to make it a better alternative to pills, powders and tablets, such as masking taste, changing delivery timings, different textures and so on.
Mike: Simon, how'd you get into this? I know that you're the executive chairman and co-founder. Was this just a thought you had someday or maybe I don't like these suppositories or something like that, or how does this come about?
Simon!: Look, it's a good question. I mean, my background traditionally has been in finance, marketing and strategy.
and I've worked in a number of financial institutions across Australia for a number of years, probably about 12 years ago. I went to the startup landscape. I had a [00:02:00] number of businesses that I successfully built, grew and exited.
And then, looking for my next thing. And I met my partner, Nathan Gavoni, who's the CEO, and he's really the brains behind the science. And we've always had problems with family members and friends being able to swallow pills and powders. And we thought, look, there must be an easier way.
And Nathan had been working initially on some ideas around a gel based with Monash University. And I met Nathan and we had a conversation around, well, what can we actually turn this into? And we've spent the last six years really turning this into this complete holistic end to end oral delivery solution for drugs and nutrients.
So, it's been a labour of love for both of us.
Mike: What did you find in the marketplace? Were there, was it a lot of competition? Was there competition, but you thought yours had a little bit of a different twist to it? What did you find out there when you started looking into it back then?
Simon!: Yeah, look, people or companies suggest, oh yes, we have a gel, but those gels are very much like a paste. They stick on your tongue. They are a lot thicker. You need to have water after them. They're limited in terms of what you can actually hold. They're normally some electrolytes, some sugars, some salts, and that's it.
[00:03:00] So that was really the major competitor that we saw. They weren't really a gel, they were more like a paste, and they were focusing more around the sports space, and really just a couple of sports. But what we've engineered is really this, Again, an end to end delivery system that works across both pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, and then animals as well.
The gel pouches themselves are very similar to the yogurts and the fruit purees you might see on the supermarket aisles. So if you think of those pouches. Right, which has a spout. Essentially, that's what we use to deliver the nutrients.
So we can put anything into one of those gel pouches as far as most compounds, plant extracts, proteins, fats, carbohydrates. Then we can mask the taste. We can change the texture and we can change the release timings. And then we can provide a gel pouch, which has the recommended dosage of things that are required for the end user.
Mike: You mentioned some of the food stuff, but you're talking medicine goes in there too. That could be ibuprofen or something. That's part of that gel.
Simon!: Yeah, so that's a bit further down the track. So we are focusing on [00:04:00] finalizing the FDA approval process for the pharmaceutical side of things. But in the meantime, we have numerous products that work across the nutraceutical space, the pets and animals space, the sports space, and also human health and things like diabetes and weight loss and things like that.
So we're working down the pharmaceutical side with the FDA at the moment on a series of APIs and once they get approved then we'll be looking to launch full scale production and sales activity for those pharmaceutical gels but right now we're focusing on the existing non-pharma products that we already have available for distribution and white label and they work across the nutraceutical space so all of your vitamins and supplements and things like that we can put into a gel.
We've got a series of products for animals so if you've ever tried to give an animal a form of tablet again we have numerous products available for dogs and cats, and then we also work across the sports space, and we also work across human health, so things like diabetes, weight loss, things like that.
Mike: These are all products that your actual company's putting out. These are different, [00:05:00] not compounds, but ingredients that are actually coming out from your company. Does it have different brand names you're putting on it and things like that?
Simon!: So great question, Mike. We're not actually looking to put our own products out there. So the aim of our business is to work with our partners and actually develop products for them. So groups who might be selling a vitamin in a pill or a capsule would come to us and say, we actually prefer this gel based method because A, it's a better solution for people.
It attracts almost a billion people who can't currently take their products. And it does all of these other things. We can add ingredients. We can actually change and improve what's already out there. So they come to us and say, we'd actually like to develop and deliver a white labeled version of what you have.
So we offer a series of white labeled products, which again, cross those verticals. And then we also work with customers who might come to us with a hero ingredient or a powder formulation and say, can you turn this into a gel for us? And of course, the answer is yes, we can. Yeah,
Mike: So Simon, when somebody wants their product, their nutraceutical or whatever in your [00:06:00] pack, do they like dropping off that ingredient to you? Or are they giving you the formula and you say, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll take it from here.
Simon!: It depends on what the product is. If the raw materials are readily available, we can certainly arrange it ourselves. If it's a specific formulation or compound or powder We may get them to ship it across to us and then we'll put it into a gel and send it back.
Mike: Simon, a lot of people are not as, perceptive as I am, but I'm noticing that you have a little bit of an accent
Simon!: I would imagine your listeners would have picked that accent up pretty quickly, Mike.
Mike: Are you making an effort for this in Australia and also the U S and is one of them easier than the other one?
Simon!: No, look, the technology itself was developed in Australia and we are proud Australians and we're very happy that we've developed it and continue to develop the R& D and science in Australia. But the US is an integral part of our business. So we are focusing on rolling out and there is a huge growth opportunity [00:07:00] for us in the next 12 months.
We will be launching in both the east and the west coast. And the US remains an important market and a key strategic focus for us.
Mike: Which one is tougher as far as regulations and things go, like to get FDA approval for future drugs and things like that in your product. Which one's gonna be a tougher nut to crack?
Simon!: I think it really depends. I think so long as you're actually providing the correct data and the right information going through the correct process, there's not one that's easier or harder than the other. They're both incredibly well recognized. And I think from our end, given our focus in the U. S.
as well, we prefer to go down that FDA pathway at present.
Mike: The US the most. Is that the most natural market to hit after you branched out from Australia? Was there any other country in the running or is the U S a good one to latch on to?
Simon!: We love the U. S. So both Nathan and myself are very big fans of the U. S. And we're not just saying that, Mike, because I'm on your show. But the US has a lot of very similar traits to [00:08:00] Australia. So it makes sense in terms of language, in terms of products. So the US is a natural logical next step, also in terms of volume and also working through the FDA pathways.
In saying that, we do actually work with a series of other clients across Asia Pacific, Middle East as well. but we have seen a number of our existing and initial clients from the US. So that's why we've continued to follow that pathway.
Mike: Cause you're in the U S right now. I think you said you're in Sacramento.
Simon!: I am. I'm on the West Coast at the moment. We just spent a week in New York, which was fantastic. And, it seems that the U. S. market really is adopting and adapting to what we have. So there's been some very positive conversations, and the discussions can continue to emerge. And we really do see the U.
Mike: How do you approach that with the companies? Do you say, Hey, I'm Simon. I got something I want to show you. Who do you talk to? And how do you break into that with a company even?
Simon!: We've got a series of partners. We've got some staff on the ground in, in, in the U S now as well. So they've got a series [00:09:00] of leads. And again, a lot of people are starting to hear the gel tech story and are actually coming to us. So we've launched a number of products for clients in the U S and we're starting to get around that.
This is, I guess, the latest innovation in nutrient delivery. So people are actually coming to us as well now. But you're right, there's nothing wrong with going out there and doing a bit of cult calling as well.
Mike: Yeah, better you than me. Pharmacists are terrible at cold calling. We've never had to do it. A lot of the listeners are from independent pharmacies and you tell us to, Cold call. I mean, first of all, we're not going to leave the store to do it.
And when people come into the store, you're not, you're obviously not cold calling them. We don't think it's selling. You're solving someone's problem. And we think that's not selling that solving a problem. But of course that's what selling is.
You're solving a problem as you're doing.
Simon!: I mean, everybody says they've got a solution to a problem. I guess when we look at gel tech and the technology, we really designed it around those almost billion people who can't swallow pills, powders and tablets. There are obviously a number of other people who can benefit from the technology and also a number of different verticals, but we [00:10:00] really are going about solving a very real problem.
So there's also existing products across the nutraceutical space, such as some of the products we have around diabetes, which fits seamlessly into existing pharmaceutical product ranges on their shelves.
Mike: Yeah. Cause when I think of products that are already in gel packs, I'm thinking of applesauce and yogurt and that kind of stuff, but the stuff that you're mentioning Is it may maybe some of their stuff, but the other stuff you're mentioning, the nutraceuticals, a lot of times those are tablets, powders, things like that.
People just don't want to stomach those.
Simon!: Correct. So there's a lot of people who don't want to stomach them, Mike, and there's also a lot of people who can't stomach them. So our technology enables those who don't want to and those who physically can't to be able to still receive a relevant course of treatment.
Mike: How do you go about something like this from the beginning as far as funding and stuff? Is this self funded? Was that part of the stuff that you had to convince investors?
How does that all work out to get something like this even off the ground?
Simon!: It did take a considerable amount of [00:11:00] initial funding to come through. And I funded a lot of it and my partner funded a lot of it. We've got about 60
individual shareholders now who've been involved in the business since, since 2018, have been very well supported by those individuals and those family offices.
So we're also. quite frugal in terms of what we spend. We want to make sure that the funding we spend actually delivers certain results. So, we're very careful with the funds that we have, but in saying that we also had to make sure we spent it on the right things. So obviously the product testing, the product validation, also a lot of the patents.
So we've got a series of patent families and patents that have already been granted. So we do have patents that have been granted in the US, in China, in India, in the EU, in Australia. So we wanted to make sure that the technology worked, but then we also have to make sure that we could, protect it and continue growing
Mike: When you get those early investors like that, is that something that? Are investors like that already? Like, do they already get like a percentage chunk of the business or are those more seed capital that you can pay them back and so you're not splitting the company up so much? How does that work?
Simon!: That's a great question, Mike. So it can [00:12:00] vary. I mean, from our end, we took initial investment from myself and my partner, and we tried to fund as much of the early stage development. development work that we could and then when we started to bring investors in we bought strategic investors in and then we also then went into the I guess the debt side of things so offering things like convertible notes and things like that whereby you'd borrow the money you'd use the money to grow your business then you'd pay the money back and you'd either give them as the ability to convert into the business or just be alone with a coupon rate.
Mike: I gotcha. all the stuff that you've done in the past, how much have you had to deal with investors? And whenever I ask this question, people always say, we love our investors, Mike. We don't even have to talk
Simon!: Well, Mike, you've already answered your own question. Now, I look, you know, I look, I'm pleased to say that from the investment community, and I guess the initial 60
odd investors, we know 50 of them personally. I've run a number of startups. I've raised a lot of money over the years. And I guess, I treat my investors like family and I would never ask them to put money that I wasn't prepared to put in myself.
So I think that's potentially a bit of a difference that [00:13:00] Nathan and I have both funded this business ourselves along with our families. So that gives us a lot more confidence to go to investors and say, look, we're not asking you guys to do it alone. We're doing it too.
Mike: Looking at your LinkedIn profile, Simon, and alluded to this, but you come from a long line of. Different companies, this isn't like different companies because you're like a 22 year old college grad and you're getting fired from these places.
I mean, these are things that you did and you've invested and then
Is that something you always knew you wanted to do for diversification? What was inside of you for me to be able to look at, your history of all the different founders and advisors and things like that.
Was that something you started out from the start wanting to do that? Or how did that come about?
Simon!: Yeah, that's a good question, Mike. I think, my background in terms of going into a number of [00:14:00] startups, exiting them and now helping other people, sitting on a number of boards, investing in those businesses and helping them grow. It's just something that I think I've really enjoyed over the last 10 years.
I've enjoyed the variety. I've enjoyed it, it's almost a thrill of the chase that every day you have to do something different. So, from my personal gratification, I enjoy seeing businesses succeed. I enjoy founders just having a go. You're not always going to succeed, but I really admire those founders, especially in this day and age, you just go out and give it a crack.
And if they fail, we'll always try and support them. I like people. Mike, I'm a very much a people person, so from that end, dealing with people and helping them actually grow. And then I also found out that as I exited businesses, as I became on the board and advisory, I've met a lot of people that I could also throw into our universe.
So again, trying to provide ongoing relationships in some of our other businesses is also something that sort of helped drive as well. So. Somebody might be interested in one business, but we talk to them about one of our other businesses. And we just try and, build a universe, our own little ecosystem, of very good people who are credible, who are reliable, who will continue to support funding as we need to as well.
I mean, a lot of the businesses will always require additional funding. So we want [00:15:00] to try and find strategic investors who understand that we'll continue to support. And that's certainly what I try to do.
Mike: Coming into adulthood, let's say this. Energy you had, Did you hit the ground running with that? Or you mentioned the last 10 years. So you're not 28. I take it.
Simon!: No. I look 28 for your viewers, but no, I'm uh,
Mike: Of course.
Simon!: Not at all. Look, I've always had
energy.
Mike: you spent some time in the trenches for a while,
Simon!: 100%. And again, I spent a lot of time in I guess the corporate space. I worked in a number of different sort of finance based roles, but then I also, In my startups, again, I did everything, everybody works for sales, everybody works for production, everybody works for everything.
So, you find yourself adapting and learning different skills along the way, and finding good people along the way as well. But, in regards to my energy, I've always been quite an energetic person. I have a lot of unspent energy that I like to throw into things.
And really, business is my hobby as well, getting involved with these things really is as much of a hobby as it is a job.
Mike: What's your biggest emotion that you think you have [00:16:00] you would struggle with in your goals?
Simon!: Probably calming down. I think that the chance to sort of stop and smell the roses, if that's an emotion, I'm taking that. I know who would have thought, but no, look, I find it very hard to turn off. As I said, this is also a hobby. And, working with great people such as my team at Gelteq and Nathan, in particular.
It's a joy. It's a pleasure to go to work every day. And there aren't always good days, but I like finding ways through that. It's sort of like a maze that you're trying to find, alternative ways around. I mean, there are linear people who just go down a straight line all their lives.
And then there are those people who are circular, who try and find ways around to get back on the path, and I'm very much one of those people. Failure is not really an option as far as, look, yes, sometimes things fail, but we're going to give it a bloody good crack. And if things don't work, they don't work, but it's not through lack of effort.
And I guess, I try to surround myself with incredibly good people. So the Gel Teq team, even though I'm the one on the call today, we would be nowhere without the team would be nowhere without, my, my co founder without our investors. And I think it's important to sometimes stop and take note of where you are and how far you've come and what you've [00:17:00] actually built
and that's probably what I struggle with the most. It's about nine with
Mike: Yeah, how many mentioned your team Can you share how many are with gel tech
Simon!: Gelteq now, and then we've got some advisors and some consultants as well. We also have a collaboration with Monash University, so we run a full time R& D lab at Monash University in Australia. So we have a growing team, and I think I mentioned before, we've also looking to formalize and finalize our Operations in the East Coast and West Coast.
We've got a couple of people starting in that, in, in that space in, in the coming weeks as well. So in the next sort of month, we should have more full time staff, and then a range of consultants and advisors.
Mike: in my old age? I've had it with employees. I've got fewer now than I ever have. And so now I've got a real small team. Back years ago, we had a crap load of revenue
but then
Mike: three or four years ago, I
stopped doing our brand name medicine and Which we were losing money on.
And at that point, that was the first time it felt like we weren't running around with our heads cut off because we were doing stuff for basically losing [00:18:00] money on it, but it allowed me to get rid of a ton of staff and I've never been happier having, Fewer staff. I know you're stuck here, Simon, just like you have to be good to your investors, but what about employees?
Here's why I ask someone with your energy and with your mobility and so on, if I'm in your shoes, I know I have, I know I can't say it, but I'm, I'm in your shoes. It's like employees are a drag on that to me.
Simon!: No, it depends who you're hiring, Mike. And again, you have to give them autonomy, right? You're hiring them to do a job. There's no point in me standing over them and micromanaging them. Each of our guys are very skilled. And they do a service.
I mean, we're very lucky. I've worked in a lot of businesses. I've had a lot of companies, but I can honestly say the Gel Teq team really care about the overall business and have a real, I guess, innate desire to see it to fruition. I mean, they all understand what we're trying to achieve here in terms of going out there, getting those billions of people who can't swallow, offering different alternatives to different medications and different supplements.
Each of them have their own story as to why they're still [00:19:00] there.
Mike: Simon, if any, what did you have in terms of mentors even if they weren't people you knew as far as books and leaders and things like that. Did you have some, who were they?
If you did,
Simon!: It's going to sound very cliche, but everybody's a mentor to me if you go out in the park and watch somebody, watch what people do, watch movements, watch actions, you learn something. And to me, it's all about people because what I do in terms of raising money, if it's in terms of finding clients, if it's in terms of actually growing a business, it all relies on people.
So for me, it's a matter of just, I like to watch. I'm a bit of a voyeur, so to speak, in terms of actually watching people and watching how they interact. And my family's been incredibly good to me over the years. My wife is incredibly supportive. My little daughter gives me incredible, sustenance and just to know that I'm building something for her and trying to teach her.
But just to give it a go, all going back to give it a go. I've had a series of, I guess, previous shareholders who I've learned off. My partner, Nathan, teaches me something every day and hopefully I do the same to him. Everybody's got different skills, right? And I think it's a matter of, I like to get as much free [00:20:00] advice as I can.
So I'm not worried about if you're a formal mentor. I don't care if you're someone who, you know, who has to have that formal relationship impact for me. It's all about just talking to people when I have a question, and the best advice is free. You can learn a lot just by asking the questions.
There was a great saying once that was like, God gave you two, two years and one mouth for a reason. You should be looking twice as much as you're looking and listening twice as much as you're speaking.
Mike: Sometimes my daughters will have a book or something, some psychology book or something and the first thing I do is I'm looking for the What do you call that? You know that person's credentials. I'm looking for that right away, and it's probably not always fair.
A lot of people have good stuff to share, but I am looking at the credentials. I guess I don't see them as much , as I'm going through TikTok and things like that. If someone's got some good advice, don't care so much what their credentials are, but for a book, I'm still picking it up and looking at them.
Simon!: know what, Mike, I actually want to write a book and again, one day this will happen. I'd like to write, my worst business deal ever. Because I reckon you can learn more from the deals that don't go right, as opposed to the ones that do. So going out to people, everybody's failed in some way, some form.
[00:21:00] Nobody's got it right 100 percent of the time. But I think if you conduct yourself honestly, I think if you mix with good people around you, you can bounce back from anything.
Mike: Well, You brought it up, Simon, your worst business deal ever. It, you have it yet? Or are you expecting one to come up still?
Simon!: No, look, I mean, look, everyone has decisions and investments and things that they wish they would have done differently. I've got hundreds of them, I've got hundreds of deals I wish I would have done differently. I've put money into businesses that haven't eventuated through lack of progress, people, technology, whatever it might be, I've got many guess it's, when you're the one raising the money and you're the one with the investors, you just try and make sure that one isn't the one that they regret.
Mike: right.
What does Nathan bring to the two of you that you don't have and vice versa,
Simon!: Nathan's yin to my yang, we are completely polar opposites but we each provide a service that nobody, that the other one can't do. So Nathan's incredibly brilliant on the science side of things. He's incredibly fantastic at his operational side of things as well.
So Nathan's the CEO of the company [00:22:00] because A, he understands the science, he's helped develop it, he's helped actually nurture it and grow it as well as all the IP, and then operationally he's incredibly good at making sure that things don't get missed. He's very good at working with the different teams within the business as well and making sure that the business operates as it should.
you know, appropriately and also operates, you know, successfully. Successfully. My side of the business is more around the sort of the sales, the, the partnership, strategic partnerships and things like that. I'm the one who wants to get the message out to people and go out there and try and find the right partnerships, the right deals, the right clients and try to grow the business on that level.
I also do, I will take care of a lot of the fundraising as well. So from the funding side of things, that's probably more my side. But you know, there's no point raising money for a business if you've got nothing there and that's what Nathan comes in and delivers in spades.
Mike: When you talk about that, Simon, you talk about different relationships and growth and things like that. as you're contemplating on things, when you're just sitting there saying, Boy, I wish we had more of this, is that.
Sales in the future. Is it your FDA approval? What are you kind of long for as you're [00:23:00] thinking? I wish this was more,
Simon!: All of them. I just want to maximize the opportunity. So to me it's not about the money, it's not about the kudos, it's not about getting your name in lights. To me it's about coming up with an idea with a partner of mine and actually seeing it to fruition and maximizing it. Really solving a long term problem and a long term need and actually have people out there using a product.
I mean, there is no greater feeling than when somebody actually buys something that you've created. and that gives me a high every day. So for me, yes, I'd like to see FDA approvals. I'd like to see more clients, more sales, more manufacturing options, more patents, all of that.
But you know, again, Nathan and I are very clear about what success looks like, and we're very clear that we just want to maximize the opportunity for our investors, but also personally for ourselves.
Mike: Is this your first foray into a product?
Simon!: Yeah, in terms of a physical product, yeah, I've had e-commerce sites and things like that in terms of the first deliverable hard product that's there. Absolutely.
Mike: You like that?
having a product that you can actually hold in your hand?
Mike: Years ago, I redid our [00:24:00] basement at our house, put up the ceiling and carpeting and things like that.
And it was one of the happiest times for me. I would just stand there and stare at it. And I said to my friend, I'm like, why am I staring at this? And he said, well, in pharmacy. You go in and you leave and things look the same every day. Nothing's really changed or you've helped people out, but nothing's really changed.
And I would think that getting a product of some sort like that be Satisfying, to actually hold it in your hand know you're not looking for accolades and things, but kind of to show it off,
Simon!: Oh, it is. It's real, I mean, I sit on a number of Milenkovic boards in different businesses that have products, but as far as one that I've developed and created from the beginning, I'm incredibly proud of this product. It gives you a real sense of achievement. When, like I said to you, somebody who buys your product, somebody who actually pays money for an idea that you've come up with is incredibly special.
And, and again, that's why anybody who has a go, even if they fail by selling one product, there's one person who thought that idea that you had was brilliant. And that's what I like about it. So again I've invested in a lot of different [00:25:00] product companies. I sit on the board of a number of different companies that create and manufacture products.
But this is the only one that I have been involved with from the beginning. And I'm, as you say, putting my stamp to
Mike: your reason for being on board?
Simon!: A number of things. One is I think I can actually add something. I see that, I see that they're good ideas, but you know, with my, hopefully with my involvement, they can maximize that opportunity. I think it goes a long way to, My love of people and getting more involved in things and learning things I can then use in other boards and other businesses that I do.
And I think it's all about, again, building that, that little universe of people that you can do who could do things that you can't and building a group of people that you can trust. And it's also nice to see. When things go wrong in other businesses, what they do to actually fix them.
And again, apply those learnings sometimes and not panic and say, look, I've seen this before. This is what we need to do. Or this is the person we need to call. And you only get that by mixing and getting involved in other things.
Mike: When I think about boards, I'm thinking about that. You're kind of sitting back and kind of like giving the nod. Yes or nod. No. Am I thinking right? Or sometimes are you putting forth ideas and strategies and [00:26:00] things like that?
Simon!: A hundred percent. I mean, there might be boards where people turn up four times a year, take three votes and then walk away and take a check. It's not the way I want to be. Again, I only joined boards that I believe in the product. I believe in the people. And again, I'm lucky enough to work with a series of very interesting clients and interesting products that I'm on the board of.
But really, Gel Tech is the one. If you ask me what my absolute passion is, and where 99 percent of my energy, time and goes, it's on Gel Tech.
Mike: Simon. So thinking through this, uh, I'm picturing, okay, my kids, super expensive applesauce. They get two swallows for love. I'm looking at my wife putting their lunches together. And I just know this stuff is hard on the pocket book. But I'm looking at that.
What is different about your guy's stuff? What technology? Cause you mentioned patents what kind of things is your product doing that I'm not just looking in the lunch drawer?
Simon!: So it's important to note that the technology has been developed over a number of years. We've got a [00:27:00] series of patents that actually protect and leverage off other patents to make sure that we have a very unique delivery system. But what we've developed is a delivery system. It's not just some Apple sauce in a pouch.
The technology itself is able to Bring any compound, whether it be a carbohydrate, a protein, a fat, oil, plant extract, and put it into a gel, almost into a puree, into a pouch, and keep it stable. That's the first thing. We can then take unsavory ingredients, whether they be cod liver oil, fish oils, collagen, things like that, and actually mask the taste.
So again, we can have unsavory ingredients in the gel. We can put a lot more ingredients into a gel than your standard pill powders and tablets. So it's a much better dose of other things that you can put in there as well. We're then able to work across different textures. So again, someone who's older has bigger problems swallowing.
We can actually make it a thicker gel to ease the swallowing, but we can also go across what we call the IDDSI. Dysphagia framework, which essentially allows you to take anything from a liquid all the way up to a semi solid. Again, very important in [00:28:00] terms of looking at what condition you're trying to treat with the gel.
We can then do different release timings in the gut so we can break it down to be fast or slow releasing. So all of those things are very unique to our gel solution as opposed to let's say a sport gel that's out there now which is essentially some nutrients, some sugar, some salts, some electrolytes and it's more like a paste.
You need water after it. Our gels you don't. They're all hydro based so again a lot easier to swallow. You don't need water after them. So it is an incredibly unique, flexible and functional delivery system compared to pills, powders and tablets.
Mike: Oh, that's interesting. Cause I was thinking of gel, I'm always thinking of, I know this isn't it, but I'm thinking of like a gel capsule and things like that. That's a delivery system. And when you would, Talk about the squeeze packs and things like that.
I was thinking the technology was mostly in that delivery system, but really, it sounds like you're talking more that the gel itself is the product, your different delivery [00:29:00] systems, the things that look like the applesauce containers, is there any uh, patent things in that, or are we talking just the gel?
Simon!: Well it's the gel but we've got a series of different patches and packages we can use. We've tried to keep it very simple that if you go down a supermarket aisle people are already familiar with it. So in terms of getting people to adopt this technology is a lot easier than trying to teach a new market how to do something.
Right? So that, that was the rationale behind that, but really the technology around the gel solution, that is that unique piece where, you know, again, we've got that flexible, functional, delivery vehicle that we can essentially put almost anything in and then worry about the flavor, worry about the texture, worry about the delivery.
And again, that is incredibly unique to gel tech.
Mike: If you're walking down a grocery store, you don't want to, you don't really necessarily want to teach them a new way to have to hold on to something or squeeze it a different way or something like that. You want something that's familiar to them and then let your product speak through the [00:30:00] gel mainly.
Simon!: Exactly. So the perfect example would be a child's fruit puree, where there may be a couple of things in there, some apples, some sugars, some salt, and that's really all that's in that pouch. Well, with our technology, we can put 50 other vitamins and minerals in there to actually give the child a lot more health benefit by having that gel.
So again, same taste. But we can put a lot more, much higher health based, delivery of more healthy nutrients into those gels.
Mike: What are some other big markets for you guys?
Simon!: So we see that we're revolutionizing the sports space. So our sports gels are very unique. Right now there's a handful of gels out there for cycling and for running and really that's it. What we've developed is a series of sport gels that focus on individual sports. So what we've done is create.
Individual gels that focus on recovery, hydration and performance for each of those sports. So we've worked with athletes, with physicians, with doctors, with allied health professionals. and developed what the requirements are for those individual sports. So we've got individual sports for golf, and individual sports for ping pong.
We've got individual sports for [00:31:00] baseball, We've got individual sports right? That focuses on what the core requirements are for those particular sports. So that's something that's incredibly unique to what we have. I'll give you an example. There's 400 million people who play ping pong. There's not one supplement on the market now for ping pong players. It's specifically designed for the requirements and the athletic requirements of ping pong players. Well, that changes with our gels.
Mike: So obviously you've got two things there. You've got the product that's going to be right for them, but then you've got the, what would you call it? First in, first in the market kind of thing so that's like a double whammy. You're helping them. But also there's no product there.
So you're the first to that market of filling a hole for them. And there's probably more than just, what's good for them. Now they feel special because they've got their own special ping pong gel.
Simon!: Exactly. So we've taken time and care and worked with athletes in their field, worked with doctors in their field to actually develop a solution that works for them.
Mike: What different sports are there? Ping pong was a good example.
Simon!: So golf's a great one. We've [00:32:00] got a gel that focuses on, on, on what's required in golf in terms of concentration and in terms of, also what muscles you're using and recovering hydration on those ends. We've got a cycling gel that puts a lot more into the cycling gel than what's currently out there.
So in terms of just building up the nutritional panel and putting things in there that have been missed by other groups, that's something that we've got. So almost that new and improved cycling gel. But really we do things pick, we've got pickleball gels, we've got baseball gels, we've got running gels, we've got squash gels, we've got rugby gels.
So, there's 40 individual sports. That, that we've utilised and the list keeps growing. We've then also got things like cramping, so that are more sports, that are more functional. So we've got things for you if you're working at altitude. Alright, so if you're training at altitude, you've got a gel for that.
We've got things for hydration across the different sports as well. So we've really tried to be that all encompassing solution that focuses on sports specific but also wider general functionality as well.
Mike: I think that'd be fascinating to sit in on those marketing things because each one of those has its own unique, you think of ping pong and trying to learn that market [00:33:00] and sell to that market and, that's not something you necessarily sell in a grocery store. There's all kinds of things out there and we can't even think of them cause we're not in that industry, but, that'd be cool.
Sit in, just find out how, well, let's go there. I mean, ping pong, how do you get into the ping pong market? Is there a ping pong, is there a ping pong magazine? Are you going to put your logo onto the ping pong tables? how do you get into, how do you break into those markets?
Simon!: Again it's worth noting, Gelteq, we don't want to develop our own products ourselves. For us, it's all about white labelling the technology for some of the other groups. So again, people who make ping pong equipment, tables, right? People who want to get into nutrition in different areas.
Again, that's where we can take it.
Mike: You're selling to the people that may want to do that. That's not your requirement or really on your radar of how to break into those markets?
Simon!: I'd rather go to an association, Mike, which already has 3,000 players. We'd go to some of the equipment and fashion groups and sort of say, look, have you thought about going into nutrition, right? Sports nutrition, again, same [00:34:00] thing, providing that option.
Mike: Simon, what's your typical day look like? I know there's no typical day but what are you, what time are you waking? What, where are you going first? What are you doing? When are you ending?
Simon!: Yeah, look, Geltek, because we have a global presence, there's always something to do on other sides of the world. Being in Australia, a little far remote sometimes, which is why we travel to these countries while we're in the US now. But, traditionally I'm up at five o'clock, I have breakfast, I go for a walk and make some phone calls.
Nathan and I will jump on a call together at seven, seven thirty. I'll get my daughter ready for school. I always try to drop her off if I'm in town and I can. And then, you know, into the office and where Nathan and I are working on product creation, but also working on, a lot of the sales opportunities and working on pipelines and working on, just getting the product out there into the right hands and people using Again, we've got lots of calls in, 24 circle. Get, try and pick my daughter up if I can. Again, I think it's important to be present for your kids as well, where you can. And then, have dinner with her, put her to bed and then back on the phone, so there's a lot of phone calls in my day.
There's [00:35:00] Nathan and I speak probably, 12, 13 times a day if we're not in the office. And we're just, there's always a lot of communication going on, and we just want to make sure that everybody knows what's going on at all times.
Mike: I'm not big on the phone calls.
Simon!: I love them. I love them. Nathan loves emails. I love phone calls.
Mike: You'd rather be calling people.
Simon!: I'd rather pick up the phone, I can get an answer in five seconds, as opposed to sitting there, writing an email, waiting for them to come back, if I've got a question, I have to send another email back. I just think it's a lot more efficient to pick up the phone and make a call.
Mike: Are you tracking that somehow, the answers you get? That's a nice thing about emails, is your, that's tracking for you automatically.
Simon!: Yeah, look, things that need to be tracked, we track, we'll put things into the, the CRM system, if that's where it needs to be, we'll write documentation if we need to, we'll write a follow up email if we have to, but, in terms of getting answers quickly, I always like to jump on the phone, but look, to your point, Mike, there are times when we have to get answers in writing, in which case, obviously, we'll put those in writing.
Mike: Looking at your history here, Simon, for a guy that has had a lot going on and a lot of ideas and things like that, This has [00:36:00] been a long commitment for you since 2018. I mean, we're coming up on, what,
Simon!: Six years, yeah. It's, without sounding like a salesman here, which hopefully I haven't done today, Mike look, it really is the most flexible and functional program I've been involved in. Nathan and I are an incredibly strong unit. We get along professionally and personally.
We've developed a very strong bond in terms of actually between ourselves and also tried to build that with the team. The technology itself, again, we've protected, we've made sure that we've continued to grow and protect it. And the technology works, that's the other thing.
It's not like we're going to do this in the next two or three years. We've actually got something there now that's ready to roll out and that's what we're excited about. I just see, if we're able to maximize this from a commercial perspective, the gains and the financial returns will be considerable.
Now, but also what we do on the other side, which is actually providing something for those people who can't swallow, who suffer from dysphagia, who suffer from diabetes, who suffer from weight problems. This technology will actually save and improve lives, and you can't, very rarely do you start something from scratch that does that.
So, both Nathan and I, we're incredibly proud of what we've [00:37:00] developed.
Mike: What are your, what are some don't give me the numbers, but what are some goalposts that will help you determine that things are moving like you would like them to move?
There's a million of them, but you have certain ones that are, you're kind of, leaning to, or not leaning towards, but kind of aiming for.
Simon!: Yeah, look, certainly on the product side there's more patent work. There's more protections that are coming in place, you know, full time R& D lab is working hard to continuously evolve the technology and update the technology. So we want to make sure the technology continues to adapt and evolve, which is great.
On the sales side, I'm pleased to say we have a robust pipeline. We've got a series of clients who are very supportive. We've got clients who are reordering products and also developing new products with us. So I think for the sales side, yes, we can always do more. And I think from our end, rolling out, our staff and our commitment to the U.
Mike: So Simon, we've got perhaps some students listening and let's say in pharmacy, What advice would you have for [00:38:00] them? Especially somebody who has maybe a little bit of an entrepreneurial slant to their thoughts. What advice would you give to them?
Simon!: Call me, Simon at Gelteq. com. That's an email, or you can find my number on the site. If you're interested in that,
Mike: you're be their mentor!
Simon!: I'll be their mentor. I'll be their backer, for my end, it's a matter of finding good people and people who really want to give it a crack, you can't teach entrepreneurialism.
I don't believe you can teach someone to become an entrepreneur. I don't believe you can teach someone to sell. I believe they're innate things. And if you like people and you believe in what you're doing, yes, there are skills you can pick up, but to me it's more of an art. And if people want to, if there's students out there listening who desire to develop the next step.
Biotech or to develop the next delivery system or to work on something that's never been done before, I'd suggest doing it. Now, you do have to have conversations with people and that's why I'm very happy to take those calls and have the confidential discussions because I just have an idea.
Don't lose the idea. Write all your ideas down. Talk to the people that you trust. Don't worry about NDAs and things like that because you know that you're not going to get the right answers. Have [00:39:00] the initial conversations with people. Right, and then once you've got an idea more formulated then you can look to protect it and grow it and find people and raise money and things like that.
Mike: Be so, don't be so worried. You got the greatest idea. Everybody's going to steal it. Don't go in with that. Go in first, see what the feedback is. You can always. Because ideas are a dime a dozen. You can always protect those later. You're not just protecting ideas. You're protecting your pants. with your pants.
You're protecting ideas that have actually, you've solidified and so on.
Simon!: Yeah, correct. But you also, I mean, you can't do it yourself, especially starting out. I mean, there are very few people in the world who've done this by themselves. In fact, I can't think of one who's actually built something, a multi billion dollar company, by themselves. So to me, it's a matter of making sure the ideas sound, and that people will talk to you and give you ideas.
Have you thought about this? Look at, look at what I do whenever I come up with an idea and Nathan and I will sit down or Nathan comes up with an idea and we'll sit down. We want the other person to really go to town on it and tell us why it's a bad idea. We know why it's a good idea, because that's why we've come up with it, but I want people to come back to us and say, look, it's not going to work because of this, or have you thought about this, or this is a silly idea because of this.
It's the only way you can cover yourself. So never be afraid of [00:40:00] rejection, never be afraid to have conversations with people.
Mike: I do that now with a GPT chat. I put stuff through there, you know, like things I've written. Who am I kidding? I haven't written it. They've written it. I come back a day later and I say, critique this. And I don't mind that because I don't like humans critiquing me. But Chad, GPT is okay because they're so kind about it and I'll take something and I don't feel bad if I don't take it or they're going to think this way or something like that.
So that's been my built in critique system and I'm sticking with it.
Simon!: No, that's fine. That's fine, Mike. And again, ChatGPT takes a lot of the fun out of things too. I think people have good ideas, but it's important to not forget those ideas. And write them down and try to build on them, have the conversations and see how you can change them. You know, Nathan had an idea initially about okay.
How do we actually improve the testing for diabetes? And then I met him and we had the conversation around Okay Well, let's try and build a solution that can actually work across multiple things and it all started from his idea around And is there an easier way to? to take the test, and from there, that's where this [00:41:00] business grew.
So, the other thing I tell people is, wherever you think your business is going, it's going to be a complete 180 degree shift by the time you finish. However much you think it's going to cost, it's going to cost more. However long you think it's going to take, it's going to take longer, and it is what it is, the nature of the beast.
So, entrepreneurialism equals resilience.
Mike: All right, Simon. So, you're wildly successful in helping out people that don't like, tell me again, the pills, powders. What is that phrase?
Simon!: Dysphagia, so people who can't swallow, is a
Mike: No, but I mean, you've got your, you've got your elevator pitch . It's people that don't like tablets.
Simon!: like,
people who can't swallow tablets, pills and powders, this is an
alternative to them.
Mike: tablets, pills, and powders. All right. You're wildly successful at this and you take over the world with it. I'm always surprised when I look at Tesla, Amazon, Bezos and so on. Whenever I look at these guys, they've got like. 10 percent of the stock in their business.
Is there a reason why these guys are always around 10 [00:42:00] to 12 to 15 percent or is it because they've had to sell so much of it to grow? It seems like that's like a magic number and it's not as high as I thought it would
Simon!: It's funny. It's, there's different countries who have different requirements. There are certain founders who believe they should own 51 percent of a company, whereas I always tell people equity doesn't mean control. So to me, it's a matter of, you're better off taking 10 percent of a bigger company or 50 percent of a smaller company.
A lot of the time, they have to raise money and things, as I said, take longer and cost more. So I have no doubt they all thought that they ended up at 25, 30%, but due to circumstances, situations, they ended up at 10%. To
me,
it's a
matter of,
Mike: they're not down. on, they're not down probably that far on purpose necessarily to divest.
Simon!: No, I mean, they'll sell it when they get a chance, if that's what they want to do. But no, I mean, nobody wants to see a founder selling shares in the first, these guys have gone public. Nobody wants to see them selling shares in the first couple of years, so, there's an
expectation that they'll hold on to those shares.
Mike: So Simon, someone listening right now, what's the best way for them to not only look you up, but maybe I, well, I guess, I check you guys out,
Simon!: Well, go to Gel Teq. com please. I'd encourage you all to go and have a look at the website. Happy to send out some samples if people want to try the [00:43:00] gels, if they want to talk through some of the different products that we've got. Again, we work across a series of verticals that might be interesting. Find me on LinkedIn.
I'll spell the surname because nobody will ever find it otherwise. So it's SZEWACH.
Mike: How the hell do you pronounce it? I, I'm not, I'm not usually stuck on a last name and I don't say the last names.
Simon!: It's pronounced Sheva. So if I said Sheva, you will never ever be able to spell that. So hopefully, if you go on Gel Tec's website, or go check Gel Tec on LinkedIn, you'll find me. So look, I encourage touching base with everybody, anyone who's got an interest in the product, anybody who wants to learn about what we've built, how we've built it, what the products are, I'd be more than happy to reach out and have a chat.
Mike: Simon, golly. Thanks for letting us into your world. I'm still not buying the whole conversation thing.
I don't like that. I don't like people, but I know you do and keep it up. It'll be fun to see all the great places you guys go. Hey,
Simon!: for your time and then to your listeners as well. Really appreciate the opportunity and it's been a blast. So thanks for your time.
You've been listening to the Business of Pharmacy podcast with me, your host, Mike Kelser. Please subscribe for all future episodes.
