Prepare for Exigencies | Dr. Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:15] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Hello, Richard. Hello, Mike, how are you doing today, 

[00:00:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: sir? I'm doing well. Thanks for joining us today. 

[00:00:20] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait to get started. I'm always looking to have productive dialogue with my fellow 

[00:00:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: pharmacists. For those that haven't come across, you introduce yourself and. Why we're talking today.

I'm 

[00:00:33] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Richard Harris. I'm an internal medicine physician pharmacist. And actually recently MBA just finished my MBA about a week ago, actually, uh, who went into holistic medicine. So I worked in conventional medicine for a while. Hated it felt like I wasn't getting anything done and wanted to return to the principles I learned in pharmacy school, which was head to toe holistic.

Physiology based approach. And so now I do that through online wellness console. Uh, through an educational consulting company, we do social, emotional learning, personal development. You know, I really wanted to be able to impact every single facet of life from a holistic wellness and personal development spectrum.

[00:01:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. I thought that MBA got thrown in there since the last time maybe I looked up your stuff. Let me ask this first right now. Are you still. In the trenches of one of those jobs. That's not in your new desires of 

[00:01:36] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: holistic. I am. So right now I'm doing about, uh, eight to 10 shifts a month in the hospital.

Uh, and interestingly enough, right now I've been seeing a lot of, uh, COVID patients in our hospital and treating COVID patients with actual nutritional therapy. Right. So I've been using a lot of vitamin D zinc, uh, vitamin C therapy. If I had alpha lipoic acid, I would use it. If I had glutathione in the hospital, I would use it 

[00:02:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: as an independent pharmacy owner.

I have to keep up with all this stuff that's in the news so that I can try to order it before it's sold out at the wholesaler the next day, after the. Customers come through. So that through the three things you mentioned outside of the, the thermometers and the mass, and those kinds of things is zinc and the vitamin D and vitamin C and so on.

So you're doing that about eight shifts a month. So couple, couple days a week. 

[00:02:34] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah. Usually about two max, three days a week, I picked up more shifts last month because all my other business stuff got put on hold. So this is a good time to pick up extra shifts. And, you know, at that point I felt like I can make more difference inside the hospital than outside the hospital.

[00:02:53] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Right. Where you are not doing the things you quite wanted to do in the world of. 

[00:02:58] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah, correct. Uh, I felt like I was just putting bandages on symptoms and not really healing people. And it was the group that I was working for. They literally trotted me out in front of all the media. I did all our social media appearances.

I did all our TV appearances. I did, uh, all of our webinars. And then when I tried to become more holistic focus, they would be like, well, your metrics were status. And I was like, okay, let's pull up all these patients and be like, okay, this person's lost 15 pounds. This person's coming off. Blood pressure medications, this person's coming off their diabetes medications.

What do you really care about? And the message was, get your metrics up. And I was like, okay, I'm out. And I left to try to figure out what I wanted to do at that point in time. And I used the hospital's kind of a bridge for me to figure out what avenue I really wanted to bring. 

[00:03:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: How long has it been since you started doing some of your own holistic stuff?

[00:03:58] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: So I started dabbling in it about two years ago and you know, like everything else, you have to find your own niche. You have to find your practice. And, you know, the holistic sphere is huge. There's so many different things that you can do. And so I didn't really know which way I wanted to go up until about six months ago.

I really figured out that my passion is lifestyle medicine. Nutrogenomix and micronutrient testing. I love that stuff. I love the evaluations. I love correlating it to people's symptoms to their family trees. You know, now has gotten to the point where if you tell me your, your symptoms and your family history, I can pretty much tell you what is wrong micronutrient wise and what is wrong, neutral genomic wise.

And then you can, it's that true personalized medicine where you're creating. A plan for the person that's in front of you. And I love that. And then I threw in health coaching on the back end. I started studying behavioral change and change analysis and the science of habits. And now I incorporate that into my practice as well, to help people really become the agents of their own change, the agents of their own destiny and live that life full of joy and satisfaction and fulfilled.

[00:05:10] Mike Koelzer, Host: Let's say finance as a side, what would your green be? Would it be to talk to Mrs. Smith one-on-one or do you want to have a TV show where you're affecting millions with this, but not having. Personal interaction? 

[00:05:26] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Uh, both actually. So the way I designed the business was, so I would only see about three to four people a day in one-on-one consults because it requires a lot of energy.

Right. And a lot of you're pouring so much of yourself into somebody that. It's draining it's really is draining. And so I wanted to be able to have my best for each person. So I want to still do that, you know, see a couple people a day, but I also want to be able to speak to the masses. I want to, uh, travel around speaking about lifestyle medicine, holistic health.

I want to travel speaking around the benefits of pharmacists and how we need to elevate the profession of pharmacy. To talk about coaching and how we become our own change agents. So, um, I pray every day that, that I touch just one life. But at the same time I'm reaching for the, one of I'm also reaching for the mini.

[00:06:24] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. So when you talk about reaching for the many, I know you have a podcast that seems to be obviously one of the vehicles to touch many. Has that been. Everything you thought it would be, or does it seem not to quite get far enough and so on? Is it a good step right now? 

[00:06:45] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah, absolutely. I started the podcast for a couple of reasons.

One, because people kept asking the same questions over and over again. So I wanted a way that I could, uh, just get people to the information because of, you know, it's the same, a lot of same questions over and over again. Right. And then two was because awareness for holistic medicine is extremely. Yeah.

So I wanted a vehicle that could introduce people to lifestyle medicine, to holistic medicine. And then after about the first six episodes of me floundering around not knowing what I was doing.

You learn as you go. Right. And, uh, I figured out that I love podcasts and I love the medium. I love connecting with other people, being guests, having guests on. It's just a, um, an amazing platform for connection. I didn't go into. As a, as a vehicle for connection, but I've found that this is a way to connect with other providers and thought leaders and, and connect directly with people.

Uh, and I'm loving it. It's just absolutely amazing. 

[00:07:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: This long form of conversation is really cool. 

[00:08:01] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah, it is. And you can. Get your information out there in a way that's authentic. That's genuine. You can be yourself, your personality. You know, I inject my corny humor, my jokes, and use my own experience. 

[00:08:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: And it's so cool then just to go with the flow of the conversation and not have to not have to fill it if on purpose yet, not have to shut it off.

If you're going down some roads that are just really cool. So it's really cool to have that even. Open timeframe as well. 

[00:08:37] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Um, yeah, cause you never know where the conversation is going to lead and you never know what ideas you're going to brainstorm or synthesis or, uh, what you might dive into someone else's knowledge base.

Right. Cause you know, we all have these facts and things like that that are in our heads and you may jog a memory in someone else and be like, oh, you know what? I would then plan to talk about. But that's a really good point. Let's, let's talk about that for a second. We 

[00:09:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: got to dig back in the pharma D degree, an MD degree and MBA.

What the heck 

[00:09:13] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: spill the 

[00:09:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: beans what's going on there? 

[00:09:14] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Richard. So that's pretty funny because when I applied to medical school, uh, I was interviewing with a professor big Aussie guy, right. Heavy accent. And I walk in, he looks at me, looks down on the paper. Uh, you Richard and I'll go, yeah, he goes, are you the pharmacist?

I go, yeah. And literally, first question in that interview, he goes, why the F do you want to come to medical school? And I was like, oh my gosh, this is not going to go well for me, I'm not going to get it. It's been a lifelong journey. I've always been someone who loves learning and loves knowledge. And I hate feeling like I have a knowledge deficit.

Yeah. And I found what works best for me is if I structured learn and then unstructured learn. Gotcha. And so that's why originally as a kid, I wanted to be an MD. I kind of fell away from that. Um, when the physics thought I want to do biomedical physics realized I loved physics, hated math, then wanting to do bench research.

Did bench research for two years. And then I luckily worked in the Dean of pharmacy's lab, but I told them one day I was like, I don't know what I'm about to do, going to do. I'm a junior. I'm about to graduate. Like I have no clue. And he says, Hey, I think you'd be a good pharmacist. Come to pharmacy school.

I literally had no clue what pharmacist did. Yeah, none. And I was, then I didn't have a plan. So I said, I trusted him and he said, he'd look out for me. So I said, okay, I'll come to pharmacy school. And then he takes the provost job and leaves.

[00:10:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: W which is like a, like a Dean of another thing or something. 

[00:11:00] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah. You're basically, uh, right below the, um, was it chancellor? Like the, the head position? All of 

[00:11:08] Mike Koelzer, Host: the universities still there, but he's building and stuff, right? 

[00:11:11] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah. He's he's, he's the head dog now. Well, I guess he could look out for you better.

Yeah. You know, it ended up being, uh, the best thing that ever happened to me because I met a lot of my really good friends. I'm still friends with. And then I figured out after my first year in pharmacy school, I wanted to go to medical school, but I'd never quit anything in my life. And that wasn't going to be the first thing I ever quit.

So I told myself I'm going to finish this out. Um, it's probably gonna allow me to work. Medical school. So I don't have to pay, uh, you know, take out as many loans and not having as much dead. And it's going to give me a strong background and little did I know how well the pharmacy school prepared me for medical school?

Um, my classmates in medical school. Absolutely hated me because I had this been a fraction of the time studying. I worked 20 hours a week at MD Anderson in the pharmacy, right. To it, to pay for medical school. And, uh, I was able to, to have a life outside of school wise, I traveled to hung out with my friends.

Uh, I did a lot because I, I told them I have already paid my dues. Right. Pharmacy school was not easy. No, it's not a cakewalk. By the 

[00:12:24] Mike Koelzer, Host: time you went to pharmacy school, Four years of pharmacy school left or 

[00:12:29] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: three or? Yeah, so, uh, I actually finished, so I did three years undergrad. Uh, don't have a bachelor's, which is kind of funny four years farm than med school.

And then. 

[00:12:41] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna try to catch you on that. I didn't see any BS on his kid.

So you had three years, undergrad, four years pharmacy. And then how long do you say med school is 

[00:12:56] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: four years of med school, 

[00:12:58] Mike Koelzer, Host: plus then all the other stuff afterwards, 

[00:13:01] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: three years of residency, uh, and Galveston. And then, uh, two years of the MBA, 

[00:13:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: your MBA was about 10 years. 

[00:13:10] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: It was actually, yeah. From, from the graduation of pharmacy school to MBA was 10 years, the 

[00:13:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: end of med school.

It was only like about two years later, maybe. Yeah. 

[00:13:20] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: From the end of residency, it was, um, yeah, two years after the end of residency, five years after in the med school, 

[00:13:28] Mike Koelzer, Host: let me see if I have this right. You enjoy learning, but you enjoyed the structure. Learning school gave you that chance. To do that, to kind of get the whole picture.

That's part of the reason for that. 

[00:13:44] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yes, that's correct. Um, and also because it gives me more opportunities, so to understand why I did what I did, you have to go back to how I grew up. And my mom always hammered in my head to prepare for exempt agencies. And the first time you said it was like, what the heck is an exempt agency, mom.

And she's like, and she said, you know, circumstances that you can't prepare for things that you did come out of the blue. And so that was hammered into my head early. And so I always had this spider web of plans. And then also my dad who was very successful, uh, was an MBA. Um, he told me that when I was in college, was it the only thing he regrets is that he didn't get his CPA certification because it delayed him getting his dream job at the.

Gotcha. And so those two lessons just stuck with me very, very tightly. And so when I was going through my career, I said, I'd never wanted to be in one area because you never know what's gonna happen. Right, right. So I want it to be flexible, like water and I have so many different interests. I want it to be able to bounce and weave and fit into this class.

And now that glass and kind of mold my career as the, as the wind literally blows. 

[00:15:06] Mike Koelzer, Host: What was your favorite of the three pharmacy school? That was the most interesting for you? 

[00:15:11] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah, by far, I mean, uh, if at my core, what I love the most is physical. Gotcha. All right, because that's the underlying mechanism of how we work.

It's why I love physics, but I hated math because math can be so abstract and out there, but physics is currently. Right. Then you can see it in the world around you. And so that's why I love physiology because it explains literally how humans work. It's the most complex puzzle on the planet. And so we're always learning, always growing in that area.

And I knew that even throughout my entire life, I'll never have all the answers and that would always keep me engaged to wanting to figure out and learn about. Medical school is based on anatomy and pharmacy school. You know, we're taught more from a physiology head to toe approach, right? We're a medical school you're taught for an isolated systems approach.

Which is a problem because the body doesn't work in isolated systems. Right? So that's part of the reason why I'm able to think differently than a lot of my colleagues, because everything that I do, I'm thinking of that effect in totality and not specifically related to, oh, how this is just going to affect the heart or the kidneys or the micro-scale.

[00:16:32] Mike Koelzer, Host: So you talked about your structured learning. How unstructured is your unstructured learning? Is it like me? Like I see an article and I, and I read it. Or do you have structure still to your unstructured learning? Is if certain books you're reading that kind of stuff. 

[00:16:51] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: No. That's exactly like you said. I mean, I have certain books I read, um, uh, the, the books I read are typically about sociology, psychology and behavioral economics.

Those are like the three areas that I really love. And then as far as my medical reading, it's all over the place. I'll see an article, I'll see a headline I'll track down the article. Um, The most of the stuff I read now, because I've, I've read probably 400 white papers in the last year. Uh, so most of this stuff I read now is, is that spur of the moment because I've already researched a lot of the areas that I wanted to research before I got into holistic meds.

I'm 

[00:17:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: going to put you into three categories, you've got your degrees. And I can picture seeing somebody with those degrees on some sort of a, some sort of a board somewhere, you know, because you see these people with all the degrees. I can see that being a financial piece of your picture. I can also see you working somewhere.

You're working as a doctor or a pharmacist, or you're working in a company. You've gone and are spending half of your time on your own. Tell me how that affects your income potential positively, negatively neutral. When did you decide to make that jump away from the standard payroll, so to speak? 

[00:18:30] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Sure.

Yeah. So right now I'm not making anywhere close to what I was making as a full-time physician. Right. You know, it's a very lucrative job. Um, but it's not what I wanted to do. And so I knew to get back to that income level that I would need to set up multiple revenue streams, uh, also wanting to be able to pursue all the things that I'm interested in.

So this happened about. Two-and-a-half years ago. Sat down and started having really tough conversations with myself. Like where do you see yourself in five years? Where do you see yourself in 10 years? Is this what you really want to do? Yeah. Do you want to try to be an entrepreneur or do you just want to see what it's like?

And so after a while I figured out the answer was yes. And then it was figuring out how to do that. And then. When opportunities came my way. I never said no. If it was in my lane of overall helping people and educating people, I was off. 

[00:19:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: You had those conversations with yourself. Did you have to have them with anybody else?

[00:19:45] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: That's a good question at, uh, at that point in time. No, because I was single at that time. Uh, no kids, so I wasn't beholden to anybody, so I could still do what I wanted to do and not be afraid of failure. Uh, because going back to that plan for exempt agencies, you know, my backup backup plan now is work as a pharmacist.

That's a great job. You know, my backup plan is work as a physician. That's a great job. All right. And so now I have all of these, uh, opportunities in front of me. Where I know if a, even if I do fail, I'm not afraid of failing, but even if I do fail, I have backups and backups. Ideally by the end of the year, I only want to be a half to work in the hospital three times a month.

Okay. So let's say 

[00:20:33] Mike Koelzer, Host: that's a half now take the other half. And let's say the other half is now a hundred percent of your hospital stuff. What division would that a hundred percent? 

[00:20:45] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: What would you like it? I would say, um, All right. So I would say 25% of the one-on-one wellness consults, 25% from, uh, speaking in an ad revenue, things like that from the podcast, 25% from consulting.

So I do do some consulting, you know, medical directors, um, uh, I do like a life science consulting, so helping people. Integrate holistic practices into their businesses or people who want to know more about the business of holistic medicine. And then the other 25% would be from some of the other, um, opportunities I got from consulting.

So I, I have ownership in some other companies that I consulted for. And so that's basically would be the breakdown right now. Of where my different revenue stream. So most of it would come inside. Um, the wellness business. I'd also outside of that. I have the educational consulting company. Right. So, um, that I don't really do for revenue though.

I do that mainly because I love seeing kids like. Alright. I love seeing kids be successful. So I don't really count that in my, in my revenue projections, because that's something that I love that I would do for free. We're getting paid to do it, but I would do it for free. Now 

[00:22:23] Mike Koelzer, Host: look out five years. Do you like that mix of percentages you gave me?

Or would you like it to be shifted anywhere else? Five years from 

[00:22:34] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: now? Probably about the same 10 years from now, I would most likely want it to be less a one-on-one more speaking, uh, group webinars, those, those kinds of things. Uh, and then, um, Also do a little bit more business consulting because I liked that.

I liked, I never really thought I wanted to be in business. In fact, I told my dad when I was 10, that, uh, I would never go into business. And so, because he was an MBA. Right. And so, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, no, I don't want to do that. You know? You know how kids are, you know, I wonder I was like, I'm gonna blaze my own 

[00:23:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: bat.

My dad can do it. That's not challenging enough for me. I can, the only thing he can do and better stuff. 

[00:23:22] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Right. Uh, so that, that's where I see myself going. And then eventually my. And this is originally it's in my 15 year plan, but if it happens sooner, it happens sooner, but I'm really passionate about education and teaching.

I would love to be able to teach, especially to pharmacy students because that's, you know, my first love, my first degree is teach pharmacy students how to be holistic providers. If 

[00:23:55] Mike Koelzer, Host: you were wildly successful. In one of these pursuits, all of a sudden something happens and you've got just this huge book deal or whatever, and you have the financial freedom then to stop something, you've got more money than, you know, what to do with.

How does your week look then as far as hours, would you still be doing the hospital? Would you be only working 20 hours a week or would you be working 60 hours a week? Because now you can work on your passions and so on. What would that look like? If money 

[00:24:40] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: was not an issue? Uh, I would be doing the same exact thing I'm doing now.

Uh, Half hospital. I'd still be in the hospital two to three times a month. And that's mainly because I like to keep my pulse on what's happening inside the conventional side of medicine. Right. And also, I I've been able to expose my colleagues to a different form of medicine. Right. And so that's over time.

A lot of them have started to come around to the benefits of. Holistic medicine. Some of them now even give their patients, you know, nutrition, handouts, and exercise recommendations and stuff like that. So I do see some benefit and still being inside the system to know what's going on inside the system.

And also to still have a dialogue with my colleagues who practice conventional medicine 

[00:25:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: with all of these money makers that we're talking about loves and hopes and dreams, but they bring in some money. The one that's easiest for me to understand is working at the hospital and you say, okay, I worked now, I get my pay.

That's like, that's supposed to have. How do these other ones work out? As far as you letting people know that you have a fee for what you do, let's say let's start with the consulting. For example, of other healthcare fields. This is simplified as much as I can think of. Emailing you, and then you say, yeah, I'm open.

And then did they say how much is it? And then you give them a fee or how does. Communication take plates. When you go from something that seems cut and dry with a pharmacy sale, or I work in our, in the hospital or whatever, versus this other more nebulous 

[00:26:44] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: stuff right now, it's been a couple of different ways.

One LinkedIn LinkedIn's been. The godsend for me, as far as connecting the two, it's a friend referrals. So now that I've gotten into the world of entrepreneurship, of course have a lot of other friends who are entrepreneurs in different areas. So they'll reach out to me and say, Hey, um, You know, I have someone who may be interested in the stuff that you do, you guys should hop on a call together.

And so that's how two of the things deals I'm working on right now came out to be, uh, one of the deals I'm working on came through LinkedIn. And then another one came through a friend who, uh, knew of a, of another business who was looking for someone like me. And so then we just jump on a call and then.

Uh, we talk about our visions and see where we're aligned and where we're not aligned. And then, uh, as far as pricing goes, it kind of depends. So some of them are just, you know, hourly. Here's my hourly rate. Here's what I, here's my deliverable. And we'll go from there. Some of them have been for, you know, medical directorships.

So, you know, I oversee them. They also get access to all my personal materials from my clients so they can give to their clients. And then, um, we talk about, uh, business growth and, and stuff like that. And 

[00:28:08] Mike Koelzer, Host: the one you just mentioned there that. When are you talking money with them? Do you say, Hey, I'll do all of this and do all this.

And it's going to be this much kind of a retainer or this much. Either agreed to it or not. For 

[00:28:25] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: the most part. Yes. It also kind of depends on the nature of the deal. So some of them I've been like, this is what it costs. This is what I'll deliver and that's it. Others, uh, uh, we'll negotiate a profit sharing for the product that 

[00:28:38] Mike Koelzer, Host: creates.

I see, like you mentioned some of those companies and so on that you're involved. Right. 

[00:28:43] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Right. So some of them are, are me creating platforms to help teach others to, to think and approach holistic problems like I do. And so that you can, of course, I'll take a lower fee up front for some profit sharing on the back end.

It's finding your value. And that's really hard because it's not, it's not constant. Right. And then you also have to have the nuance of negotiation of figuring out what people are going to be able to pay. Sure. And so we've see that a lot with our educational consulting company. Um, we'll see. Do different bundles, depending on what we think people are able to pay.

So we all, we always want them to feel like they're have, they're getting value from our services. And we always want them to feel like they're getting more than what they paid for, because then they come back. Right. Cut somebody a deal. They'll love you. Even if it's not really a deal for them, the appearance of a deal.

They'll love you. Um, I'll always try to make it seem fair and equitable and. And make it like, we're both getting some value out of the negotiation. That's how I approach deals. How do you define 

[00:30:02] Mike Koelzer, Host: value? Would you say that ultimately in most cases is going to come down to, you could put a number on it, even if it's someone being healthier, you could say there's a financial value in being healthier, or do you not necessarily have to go that far with the thought process?

[00:30:22] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: No, you definitely do. I've found the easiest way to get people to buy in the holistics is their pocketbook. Ah, I see. Right. And then the terms I use around marketing myself, or I use in terms, people understand I'm like, Hey, you are your best. You're only going to go as far as your health and your body allows you.

If your body breaks down and nothing else matters, right? You have to stop everything, all your plans, all of that is gone until you get yourself fixed. Right. So why not make sure that you're in a position where that doesn't happen and then you're more productive. You can make more money. You spend less money, right?

It's a win win. It's a, one of those situations where the best offense is a good defense. Right, right, right. Making sure that your body's able to handle the stressors of high performance because that's one of the things. And we mentioned this a lot in our educational consulting company. We always push people to be high performers, but we don't give them the tools to deal with the stress that comes with high-performance.

Right. It's long hours, sometimes lack of sleep, uh, S a lot of stress. And so if you're not, if you're not in a position to have a plan for that, before going into that situation, your body can start to break down. It's one of the reasons why we have such high stress levels now and high burnout levels now, because we're not preparing people for the pressures that come with high-performance.

[00:31:55] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. One of the guys I listened to, they were talking about the disparity. Between male CEOs and female CEOs and his take on, it was not so much the question of maybe why there's less females CEOs, but why the hell would a Manor, anybody want to be a CEO with the hours and the stress and all that that they put in?

You know, he thinks that's crazy. Anybody would be put in that position, but a lot of people want to 

[00:32:26] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: do it. Yeah. It all depends on the company that you're a CEO of. Right. There's a, there's a big difference in some of these company cultures where this company of inclusion and diversity and freedom of thought.

And there's true. Delegation down the chain to where, when you're at the higher level is you're truly a thought. Yeah, a motivator and a coach, right. As opposed to, if you're up at the top in near company, below you is all full of micromanagers and everybody's miserable and the culture is terrible, right?

That's a hard 

[00:33:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: job. Yeah. It reminds me just this week. And I had some staff leave me in the recent months and my 18 year old daughter said, well, dad, have you ever tried to have. Like the last company I was at, you know, she was at this juice making company at the, at the mall or something. And she said we would have like morale things where like we had like meetings and, and the boss would say, you know, what's going on positive, what's negative and things like that, you know, team building.

And I said, uh, I said, You're not with them anymore, though. Right? She said, oh no, I hated it. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

So they had good theory. It was a good theory, but it's hard to put a finger on. What's going to actually do 

[00:33:50] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: that. Some people love that. And the team building exercises and the saying that some people just want to go into work and just do their job and not be bothered. And so you have to find the right.

mix and the right situation for your employees. And I 

[00:34:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: think there's even a middle of that, where there's people that they know the company is that for certain reasons, and they don't need the team building because just through certain ways, they can tell where the company is headed. And sometimes it's just a confidence of who the company is without bringing in a lot of extra team building.

[00:34:24] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Right. You have to know where your people are. Right. You have to meet them where they are. 

[00:34:28] Mike Koelzer, Host: It sounds to me like you did not actually mention like a call to action and it sounds like that's kind of on purpose and you don't even need it now because you're kind of entering into these conversations. Do you have any.

Call to actions like here's this call in 30 days, or fill out this questionnaire or sign up for a, a free one-on-one consultation or something. It sounds like the things you mentioned were all just a very natural. Conversation that led to something more and people probably expected that you don't do things for free, but it wasn't actually like a sign up.

Do this, now, leave your name, that 

[00:35:12] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: kind of thing. Yeah. And that was actually intentional. So when I started going down this route, I had the MBA. Right. And so I actually had a clinic open for awhile and. I got burnt out because I was doing too much at once a clinic of I had a holistic clinic. So I had actual office.

Gotcha. That was spending a lot of time in the office spending a lot of time on marketing campaigns and advertising and all of that. And I just got so burnt out and I said, okay, I'm going to shelf this. I'm going to figure out a way that. Do this, but move it online. Cause that gives me a lot more freedom and leeway.

And so then I went back to the drawing board. I've been testing this model out for the last six or seven months, you know, seeing some clients here and there and everything I've gotten it perfected to really what I want my program to be. How I want it to be. And so now I'm actually working on redoing my website and I'm going to have that, uh, that call to action.

[00:36:18] Mike Koelzer, Host: And what would that call be? It will be for people for more of your. Holistic clients or more consulting. 

[00:36:25] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: It's a holistic clients and it is a perfect time for it because it's going to be related to what's happening now. And like I said earlier, how all of these lifestyle measures are front and center and the data is clearly showing.

There are worse outcomes in those who have the worse aspects of lifestyle, medicine, nutrition, nutrient deficiencies. 

[00:36:48] Mike Koelzer, Host: Exactly what a better billboard for saying that you're all around health is going to help you weather the storm on some of this stuff. 

[00:36:56] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Right because it will happen again. I mean, there's, there's, there's no doubt about it.

That there will be another global pandemic there's there they've been consistent. There's been global pandemics all throughout history. 

[00:37:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: I know, even with COVID it's like I'm in grand rapids. It's almost like we shut down in grand rapids, probably two weeks early in my mind. Now it seems like people have about a month of that and I'm maybe a month and a half before they go stir crazy.

We almost started. Three weeks later, it seems, and then extend it further because now we're kind of out and about, and now it's like really when it's hitting the area, I think even that second, Wayne's probably going to be a pretty 

[00:37:36] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: decent size. Yeah, it probably will be. It's just, it's so hard because of.

The testing availability. The testing accuracy was in question for a large point in time and still some of the tests are, are, are, have accuracy issues. And then the serology testing is not widely available. So that would be good to know if. People like me who are still working in the hospital, have I seroconverted do I have antibodies?

Right. Can I go be around my parents and be okay. Like, you know, that's, that's one of the, a lot of the questions that my colleagues have. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:38:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: Richard, when you talk about goals and ideas and five and 10 and 15 years out and so on. Do you share those with anybody? Do you have, are those personal, are they written down?

Do you have a coach or are these all internal? What is your thought on that? Yeah. 

[00:38:34] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Uh, initially they were internal and then I sat down, um, about halfway through the. And wrote those down, uh, mainly a five and 10 year plan. And then actually two weeks ago, I sat down and revised it to a five, 10 and 15 years.

And then I have a 20 up to a 25 year plan in my head. I just don't like to go that far out because you know, my initial plan five years ago didn't include anything. It didn't include anything of what I'm doing now, but then I was kind of lost. And now I know what lane I want to be in. Yeah. And how I'm going to go about doing that.

So I think the plan that I created, the 5, 10, 15 year plan a couple of weeks ago is going to be very helpful and insightful for making sure I stay aligned with what my ultimate goal is. Any 

[00:39:31] Mike Koelzer, Host: other degrees in your future? No attorney, you know what I mean? Like that, or no CPA or anything like, 

[00:39:37] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: but like we talked about earlier, something happens and I get a large windfall and money's no object then the, I definitely would.

I'm done. Unless something like that happens. You're sure you're 

[00:39:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: done. Yeah. What would be the first. Breaking point of something that you maybe couldn't scale as easily as one, and you picture yourself maybe not liking what could be the first, like if I said, Richard, I'm going to force you to hire someone for three hours a week.

What would you make that person do? Is there anything that you can see as going to maybe start getting on your hate list or on your repetitive lists where it's like, I just don't like doing that. 

[00:40:18] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah. The discovery calls when someone calls me for either a wellness consult, or they're thinking about, um, lack consulting services, you know, it's really the same thing over and over again.

Right? My what's my background. What's my philosophy. How can I help you? You know, here's a tier of my services. Here's what I do. Here's what I don't do. Right. So that's very, very repetitive and that could easily be something that you could give someone in a. 

[00:40:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: These are questions that people, when you're on a discovery call, they're sort of discovering you, they have you in a, um, interview basically.

And they're saying, how do you do this? What do you do this? And you're saying that you could ask someone that knows all of that and it's just 

[00:41:03] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: answering. So, you know, when someone's in that consideration phase, right, they're interested in your product. They like, maybe they've seen on social media or, or something else, but they really want to get to know you to understand that they'd be like, you know, what do I feel comfortable spending money with this person.

Right. Right. And so, um, right now I'm doing that on my own, but it is something that you could easily have a staff member do with, uh, a script and everything like that set up. And then it just book an appointment and then it ends up on my couch. So that person already knows what's the deal. What I do, what services I provide, and then I can do.

What I really love doing, which is the active consulting or the act of walking someone through a wellness process, because I don't like sales. Um, I'll be honest. I do not like sales. I'm not a sales guy. So if I had to give something else to somebody else, it would be the sales department. 

[00:42:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: And that you would consider as part of the discovery call someone at the end of that discovery call would say, yeah.

Okay. I'll I'll, I'll do the first step or something like that. 

[00:42:13] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Correct. Correct. And then we booked that and then we go from there. Alright. 

[00:42:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: Devil's advocate. How much would you lose in the process of someone thinking that they're not talking to you and they're talking to. Someone else in the discovery call, I don't get me wrong.

I had people telling me all the time, oh, it must be great. Having a small business, you know? And the people come in, they see you there and they get to say, hi, Mike, and all that kind of stuff. It's like, yeah. But look what you just said. They get to see me here and say, hi, Mike, but I don't always want to be here for people to say hi Mike, because that means I'm here all the time.

In your case, how much do you think it helps to have you on that? 

[00:42:53] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: It depends on how your structure is set up. So I intentionally set up the structure with the podcast as part of my business platform. So people feel like they already know me. Right. So if someone, if someone comes to me right now and says, Hey, um, I'm looking for advice on this or something like that.

So I have a couple different pieces of my funnel depending on where they are. Yeah. If it looks like someone's not, they just want advice. They're not willing to spend money. You know, that's, that's perfectly fine. I have a podcast for that. So here's a bunch of podcasts topics. Now, if someone wants a little bit more in depth consideration, I have a platform for my wellness guy.

Right. And so that lists everything. You need to know, list my supplements, all my recommendations, steps to take it's all there on the wellness guides. And that's a, uh, like an $8 a month subscription Netflix model. Right. And I add new content to that as I update my podcasts. So I have my wellness guides there.

It's also my podcast companion guide spot. So if you want to get the 30,000 foot view of the podcast with the links to the supplements and just overall thoughts and impressions, that's there. That's the second piece of the funnel. And then the third piece is if someone's comes to me and says, Hey, I really want to personalize.

Right. I want to have someone, I can walk through this with someone to coach me through it, someone to do this one-on-one with, can you help? And I'm like, yes. Perfect. I can do that. So, um, that's, that's why I think that in the end it won't hurt me as much. Cause I have these vehicles, you know, my social media, my podcasts.

Right. I have connection platforms. 

[00:44:44] Mike Koelzer, Host: People know you, they're just looking for maybe some details, but people are used to that. Getting details from. A detailed paid person, knowing that that's not your forte is standing there and going through all the details before someone wants to move forward with you.

Let's 

[00:45:04] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: say. And a lot of times when I answer the phone, people are shocked. They're absolutely shocked. Like, wait, what I expected to talk to, you know, in front desk staff or something like 

[00:45:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: that. And my brother, we always joke because he said, he'd asked for the phone, like he's got a consulting business and he'd answer the phone and, you know, British accent and then, and then say, well, let me transfer you.

And then he'll put them on hold for a minute or two, you know, kind of in a situation where he's dealing with these bigger companies, you know, that have to have to hear things this way. Give us a teaser on the 20 five-year plan. The one that's in your head, 

[00:45:40] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: my big audacious goal is be a Dean of a pharmacy school.

Really? Yeah. I love education. I know. I want to get back into the field of formal education, but I want to create these systems beforehand that once, once I step out of a system, I want to be able to plug someone else in. Right or something else in there. So it it's, it lasts, it stays. So once I'm at a place where I feel like everything on mat right now, I can hand off to someone else and it's sustainable.

Then I want to go back and be in formal education. 

[00:46:18] Mike Koelzer, Host: Full-time threw me for a loop. I didn't see that going that direction, but that's really cool. All right, I'm going to play devil's advocate again As a Dean, you're not working with all of the people that are learning stuff and you see their eyes light up when they learn this and stuff.

You're just dealing with a bunch of crabby professionals who are working as Teachers. How do you respond to that? 

[00:46:45] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: You know, initially I wouldn't have said that to be a Dean. I would have said be a teacher, but what my educational consulting company has taught me is if you want real change on the education front, you have to educate the educators.

Gotcha. And that starting that company two years ago changed my introduction. 

[00:47:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: You're not just solving problems from the bottom, coming up to you as a Dean you're you're creating from the top down. 

[00:47:13] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Correct. And you can have a much longer lasting impression on the entire culture of the school. You know, cause I look at the Dean I had in pharmacy school was a lot different than Dina had in medical school.

The Dean we had in medical school was always around. You saw him everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. Real personal. A guy would come up, talk to you. Uh, always smiling. You know, he was that, uh, Energizer, right? And that gave everyone a better experience, um, that was inside that network. And so that's the kind of person that I could see myself being as well as a Dean, like him, who, who was really a change agent for everyone that was in the organization.

[00:48:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: And does your decision to go to pharmacy? Is that the same love of pharmacy? Because that was your favorite. Schooling with a physiology in that. What if I said you were going to be Dean of a MBA program or Dean of a medical program? Would that just not have that? The love of that science as much as the pharmacy, is that what plays into it?

It's 

[00:48:27] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: more of, it was my first. Right. And so it's the profession that launched me. And so I want to be able to give back, or I feel like I owe the profession of pharmacy a lot. And so that to me would be the ultimate way that I feel that I could give back to the profession that gave me so much. 

[00:48:51] Mike Koelzer, Host: That's really cool.

Yeah. That's really cool. Well, Richard, it was sure a pleasure talking with you. 

[00:48:59] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yeah. Thanks for having me on the show, Mike. It was a lot of fun. I guess 

[00:49:02] Mike Koelzer, Host: I got to watch it now for 25 years, I had to keep my tabs on, you know, 

[00:49:07] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: well, at least now it's pretty easy to do with all these things on social media.

Right? 

[00:49:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: God bless. Nice talking to you. 

[00:49:15] Richard Harris MD, PharmD, MBA: Yes, you bike everywhere.