The Power of Immigrant Entrepreneurs | Sohail Masood, PharmD, KabaFusion

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Sohail, for those that haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell our listeners what we're talking about today.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : My name is Dr. Sohail Massou. I am the founder and CEO of KabaFusion is the largest, independently owned, privately held home infusion company in the USA. We provide patients at home with intravenous drugs and nursing. And today I think, I wanna really talk about my journey as an immigrant from Pakistan coming at the age of 19 in 1981.

So it tells you pretty much how old I am and where I am today, and the challenges and rewards, of being in this country and how an immigrant, with nothing. He can make a life. and not just my life in the process, I have given back a lot and made a lot of changes for people around me, my family, my extended family, my friends,and the public in general.

So, I'm very blessed that the things that were given to me, I was able to share with a bigger audience.

Mike Koelzer, Host: What are the challenges of getting into a new culture? What's the most difficult part of that as far as how other people treat you?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So in 81 I came to Chicago for education and that was really the reason for me coming here. My older brother was already in America, so I came to Chicago, stayed with him and his roommate. So it was three of us sharing one bedroom apartment and I was sleeping outside on the floor for the first year or so, but going to school was really

Mike Koelzer, Host: Were you really outside? You were out in a tent or

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : no, no.

In the living room on the floor. Not outside the house.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You didn't get a bedroom At least.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : No, I didn't get a bedroom.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I gotcha,

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So, I came in 81 to Chicago and spent a year and a half getting my undergraduate in biology. and definitely I knew I was different,than a lot more students in my school, but, I really never felt any discrimination. , as a matter of fact, uh, few of the teachers were really very fond of me, and we made a very good relationship.

and they were very proud of my work. I was always getting straight A's and everything good in the school, so teachers were happy. At least the students were very encouraging. And, I had a few American friends,and the only thing which, kind of confusing for me at that time was American slang and American culture.

We grew up in Pakistan watching some Hollywood movies, but not really that much in, in real detail about life in America. So, there were things and I was totally baffled. I had no clue. Like I was listening to this song one time. and, I had no clue what the singer was saying because they were using the words.

That I had no knowledge of. So eventually I learned those things and I was very curious. I always wanted to blend in a way, and I wanted to understand the culture. And I found, American folks are really very friendly and very open and pretty warm as human beings. So that hasn't changed in the last 40 plus years living in this country.

I still feel the same. We travel a lot all over the world, but coming back to America and meeting the Americans is always a positive feeling and a happy feeling.

 I went to Northeastern Illinois University for a year and a half. And then my brother, he moved to Los Angeles, so I followed him and I came to the University of Southern California, usc. and then I continued my undergraduate program.

And then around 19, 83, 84, when I was pretty much finishing my bachelors in biology, I had no clue where I wanted to go. And I was not sure. I knew it was something to do with medicine, but my counselor at that time at usc, she told me that being a foreign student, I really had no chance of getting into medical school.

Mike Koelzer, Host: was that a discrimination of sorts 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : I really have no clue why she said it. But,she must have a reason because I later found out there were other foreign students, but, I think that in the end, I'm a person of spiritual convictions and I believe that God had really meant for me to go on this journey.

Didn't get into medical school. And I was talking to a friend of mine who was applying to dental school, and I told him, when I was growing up, my mom was always against me going into dental school because she said, I don't want you to be putting your hands in other people's mouths. So I knew that dental school was not my option.

So , he said, the guy that I was talking to, the friend, he said, Why don't you go to USC School of Pharmacy and a couple of guys are my friends and maybe they can show you around and [00:05:00] something you may like. So I went to the School of Pharmacy that one day and they said they'll meet me in the cafeteria.

I went to the cafeteria and I saw these four guys sitting there smoking, and I said, okay, this is it. I wanna get into pharmacy school. It looked very relaxed, so I said, perfect.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I had people in pharmacy that, sometimes the conversation of a medical doctor came up and some of them would say, well, I'm not gonna be a doctor cuz I don't like the sight of blood. And inside of my head I was saying, ah, that's bologna. You're not smart enough. None of us are smart enough to do it.

But then when I think of dentistry,

you could not pay me enough to go in there and crack teeth and have all that blood and saliva and all that mixed together. You could not pay me enough. So even though that wasn't my reason, I can see people don't want certain things,

It's just a hard thing for some people.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah, so I took it too hard, what my mom said and ended up at pharmacy school. I applied, and I had a very good gpa. I got into pharmacy school from 1984 to 1988. I was there. I finished my doctoral pharmacy, so last year of pharmacy school, as a matter of fact, I did one of my internships, in a home infusion pharmacy.

And that was really, if you remember the 1980s, beginning and middle of 1980s was really when hiv aids was just starting. It was becoming,Kind of, worrisome for people because we didn't understand what this disease does. How does it spread? We knew something to do with, homosexuality, something to do with needles, something to do with blood, but didn't know much about it.

And I did my internship in Pasadena, California at this home infusion pharmacy. And I remember going to patient homes with the nurse and the pharmacist and doing,meeting with, these young men. mostly the pharmacies used to go into the Hispanic neighborhoods. And these are young, Hispanic male, who are kind of segregated from their families.

they're in one room, the family's in the other. And as a matter of fact, they have a curtain between the young man and the family. And we'll go in and we understand a little bit that this is not something we can catch by touching people. So we will go in, we'll pat on the back of the young man and all that.

And I really enjoyed that connection between us and the patient that I did not see when we were in the retail pharmacy where a patient comes in and they're saying, Where is my medicine? I've been waiting for half an hour and that's all they're worried about. In the hospitals, the pharmacy profession is very different because there, the patient doesn't even know who the pharmacist is because the medicine comes, the nurses give and pretty much the end of the story.

So when I saw it, I said, this is what I want to do. So I told the guy where I was interning and I said, once I graduate, I want to apply at your place, as a pharmacist. And he said, you know what? I'm not gonna hire anybody who didn't have a residency under their belt. So at that time, I had no clue what pharmacy residency meant, where to go, how to do it at the very last minute.

Then I applied and I got accepted at Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn, New York. 

I said, I'm gonna go. I was a single guy. I was living with my brother. I put my stuff in my car, my Toyota cell, no air conditioning. Nope. 

Powered windows, anything. My brother and I drove to Manhattan. Then we went to Brooklyn and we found a nice single studio basement, and I rented it out and I did one year of residency in pharmacy there.

And then eventually I finished my residency and I came back to Los Angeles because I really wanted to stay in la.

Mike Koelzer, Host: on those AIDS patients, , were you seeing the loss happening? Did you know any of them and were you seeing their unfortunate passing?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Some like, you know how it is, when you are young,and you are more adventurous than when you get older. So I made friends with a few of them and instead we, because we were taking care of them. so for some time from there, and also when I started my own company, hiv aids was still there.

I was getting involved with the patients and knowing them and knew when they were passing and very sad situations so, when you talk about discrimination, I saw that discrimination firsthand with the hiv aids. Patients from the family, from the caregivers and from the healthcare professionals.

everybody. There was really this, we don't like these people kind of

thing. I felt very sad. but the reason I'm into home infusion is because I wanted to take care of those people who had no other hope 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sohail, if you grew up with the same family structure, all right, so put yourself back [00:10:00] with your brother and your parents and so on. Take your family's drive out of it. Do you think you had an advantage coming from Pakistan as an immigrant? 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So definitely. When I finished high school in Pakistan, equivalent to high school here, we call it fsc.I think our education was much harder than what the students were learning in America. So when I first came to Chicago, I remember my teachers, they were so proud of me and one guy, biology teacher, said, oh, there is.

One person who can go to medical school is Mr. Masu. So, that's how impressed he was. But for us, those were very simple things and because we had to memorize everything, the GI system and the CNS system and this and that in the body and the chemical formulas and all that, there was a lot of memorization.

American students were more into multiple choices and all that, which is still very difficult. But, writing the essay on how the digestive system works, I could do it with my eyes closed, but the other students had a harder time. So, that was the only advantage. Everything else was a disadvantage because although now I can speak better English, I can understand you much better.

Those days I had a very hard time because if somebody had an accent, little different than we, you and I would talk slowly. I had a very hard time in the class. I will miss a lot of things because I could not understand what the teacher was saying, so I had to read more in the books and understand from that.

definitely not every student in the school wanted me to be his friend. So there was a limited number of students that I could become friends with. And definitely, being a Muslim and not drinking alcohol and all that, there were few places where we could be friends and hang out. So 

that was another disadvantage, 

you know, so, so socially.

Um, it was a little odd. I remember the first time I went with friends toa restaurant and they were sitting around the bar and saying, oh, you wanna drink? No, you wanna smoke? No, I don't smoke. He said, what is wrong with you? You don't drink, you don't smoke. So those were the challenges that I had.

Social challenges were the hardest 

dealing with other human beings. and we were very poor. I told you we were four, but one time, four of us in one single room.

And that's how we lived when I was going to pharmacy school. So we were always short of money and I didn't have a car in the beginning, so I'll be taking buses, going everywhere in greater Los Angeles.

got to learn a lot about the town, but it was a challenge 

nonetheless.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sohail, I don't drink alcohol so much in the last year or two. Cause I always get headaches. And I'm not sure when they're gonna come on. It's like half the time I'm okay and half the time I get headaches. So I just don't drink it. And people ask me sometime, and I'm thinking of telling them now that I'm Muslim.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : believe it or not, there are true 

allergies to alcohol and I'm severely allergic to red wine. Even if I'm sitting in the plane, somebody drinking next to me, I'll start sneezing and coughing.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Is that right? 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So that's a true allergy. Yes.

So you can say you have allergies. Yeah.

Mike Koelzer, Host: All right, I'll guess I'll go with that.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Or Muslim, either way.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sohail, the problem is though I used to always, whenever customers would come in the pharmacy, and they'd say, I can't take that green one. I can take the red one. And whenever they left, I'd say, ah, that's a bunch of horse manure.

 I'd always mock them. And now here I am with my own headache stuff and I think it's just coming back to haunt me. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Well, yeah, that's true. So, Sohail, when did you realize that you were making more money? Then you would've if you were employed as a pharmacist, let's say in a chain pharmacy or something. At what point did it click where you said, oh, I'm doing better than I could in the field.

Mike Koelzer, Host: what year was that and where were you that you had that feeling like, I'm a step further than I would've if I was an employee somewhere?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah. So somehow, definitely one thing. Money was never a motivator for me. it was a necessity, but I never really was. Thought about money, and believe it or not, when I was 42 years old, I retired with millions of dollars in the bank when I sold my first company to shareholders. but,that was really not something that excited me that much.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I really loved doing what I was doing. but,as a, as an entrepreneur, I started my first company in 1992 called Crescent Health. Became the largest in California. And by 2004 when I brought in the investors, I was doing about 84 million in revenues. And I was the only [00:15:00] sole owner of the company. Why'd you bring investors in?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Well, two reasons.

One was,I just didn't know how to manage my time so I was always on the road and I ended up in 2003 going to uc, Irvine, thinking I was having a heart attack. but it was not that, it was actually, I used to drink and believe it or not, 25 cups, those four ounce cups of coffee a day.

Mike Koelzer, Host: 25 a day.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : exactly.

So that one day that I was on the road and I didn't eat anything and I kept drinking coffee, I ended up throwing up and my EKG flipped. So I ended up going to the hospital. So at that time I realized that life is short. And my father died at the age of 42 and I'm reaching that 42 years of age in 2003.

And I have two children. Layla is now 30. And Omar, my son with Down Syndrome, he's 26. So even though it was a large company and there was a lot of money coming in, most of the company money was tied in into the accounts receivable. I'm like, if I die tomorrow, what will happen to my company?

What will happen to my wife and children? So for that reason, the secondary reason was money. And I brought in investors. They bought 65% of the company. I maintained 35%, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Some of their money then funded the account receivable, allowing you to pull some out then

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yes. So I took that money and as a matter of fact, they thought that they could do a better job with another ceo. So they brought in a CEO and got me out of the company, gave me a chance to start the second company and that was building infusion pumps and IV pumps that we give to the patients for the drugs.

And I sold that company to Baxter in 2007. So that was the secondary project that I did between. Crescent and Carbo Fusion. Now, carbo Fusion is, I told you, is the largest home infusion company in America. It was valued more than a billion dollars when Noah came in to invest in the company.

We have 1500 employees and almost 800 million in revenues, maybe 900 this year. So reaching that billion dollar target,but at the end of the day, to me, really it was never money. It was just enjoying what I was doing. That home infusion bug that I got in 1987 continued even to this day.

 I don't need to work, but I cannot stay home and not do anything. I love what I do.

Mike Koelzer, Host: When you sold part of it was to get some money out. The other reason was because there was a lot of pressure on you. If you're not thinking about bringing investors in, could you have hired better? Instead of having people invest, could you have brought in certain executive suites and so on?

Or do you feel like you had to sell in order to give that ownership and to kind of step away?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : excellent question. so definitely I made mistakes. Like I told you, I did not. I really use my time efficiently. So if I was who I am today, I would've done things very differently. I really never looked at myself as a CEO, even when the company was doing 84 million in revenue. I was always an entrepreneur, always looking at new things, and always looking at excitement and all that.

I should have been sitting behind my desk. And really focused on managing the company rather than going out with the salespeople and doing marketing, because I really loved going and visiting the doctors and talking about IVig intravenous immune globulin, which was really something that I pioneered in California with,Dr.

King Engel back in 19 19 92. So my goal was go out, teach the doctors, tell them what we are doing, how I V I G can benefit their patients who are otherwise wheelchair bound, and they had no other way to get out of their disease estate. So I just did not see myself as a CEO. But this time around I did totally differently.

From 2010 when I started the company Carbo Fusion, I brought in my brother and two of the employees, as co-founders, who worked for me, at Crescent. and,Mike Kriegers,the clinical guy, and so merchant, the financial guy, and my brother Masu. So we started the company in 2010 from just one idea and took it to Nationwide and made it the largest, one of the most profitable and fastest growing home infusion companies.

And during this process, as you may have read, in 1999, I won my first Stan Young Entrepreneur of the Year award, for Greater Los Angeles and the second one for Carbon Fusion in 2017. I also received the most distinguished alumnus award from U S C [00:20:00] School of Pharmacy three years ago. and several other 

ones, N H I A National Home Infusion Association, they gave me their lifetime achievement award.

So I'm very blessed.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So the first company that you had that you sold, that you brought the investors in and what was that?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Crescent Healthcare. I started back in 1992, and that was to provide home infusion exactly what I'm doing today.

Mike Koelzer, Host: It sounds like you had to have a non-compete somewhere in there. And was that the reason? 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yes. It was a five year non-compete.

Yeah. So I waited five years and one day before I started my company because the investors were not very nice to me and not very nice to my company.

Mike Koelzer, Host: with the ones that 

came in with Crescent?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : exactly, so that's something that I can really teach a lot of people how to bring in the investors, on your terms and do the right thing.

Because I know a lot of pharmacists, entrepreneurs, at one point or another, Either for financial reasons or for other reasons if they want to bring in investors there,it's a landmine unless you know how to maneuver it and do it the right way, you will be shortchange because as an entrepreneur, that was my first deal of my life for those, the investors, this was something they do day in and day out.

So they knew all the little pieces here and there in the contract, which was going to help them, but not really help me as entrepreneurs. So, I learned a lot 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, I have to go back to your statement of saying that, maybe you would've changed gears and not been on the road and been behind the desk doing this or that, I would argue that by saying, Maybe you were exactly where you were supposed to be, and maybe you should have sold sooner because that's in your blood.

Because I always wonder that, like you always hear that about people that are doing something they love and then, they get a bunch of businesses and then they grow and then they're sitting in the ivory tower and they don't love it anymore. And it's hard to say, well, you should have stopped at this level and been the c e o , when you're, changing the oil in the car or something like that.

But sometimes you have to leave, I guess, because you're beyond your level of 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah, The way I look at it, there's definitely a transition between being an entrepreneur to A C E O. And being an entrepreneur is somebody who's always excited, always wanting to change things and keep doing it. A CEO is somebody who may still have entrepreneurial urges, but actually gives it to other people to do so.

The management team I have, I'm very involved with them. As a matter of fact, when, like for example, three years ago, just before Covid started, in February of 2020, we bought, link Care,home Infusion from link Care. and I remember going on the road and meeting all the employees and they were so surprised they were saying they never knew.

They're CEOs before, and they never met any top manager and near the CEO of Carbo Fusion coming and seeing them in win Arkansas and

Birmingham, Alabama, and all these towns. and they loved it and I loved it. So I still have that feeling. I still want to connect to my employees as an entrepreneur. I don't want to be a CEO sitting in the ivory tower. I wanted the same thing kind of, during Crescent, but things really didn't work out the way they did.

As a matter of fact, before I brought in the investors, before I ended up at the hospital emergency room, I had a very generous offer on the table, by another company, who wanted to acquire us. And that was strategic. Like they were doing the same thing that I was doing and they wanted to buy it and pay me a ton of money, but I was really not ready to sell.

But that trip to the hospital and remembering that my dad died when he 

I was 42 years old, and it really changed everything. And I had to go back and redraw things. And I did a lot of good things. And that's another thing that a lot of people don't do. I planned everything. I planned my living and I planned my death.

So I have trust for my children and all kinds of things that you can imagine that entrepreneurs never think about. I have done all those plans, life insurances and everything that will benefit my children and wife even if I'm not here. I don't need to depend on car fusion to keep doing better for them to eventually get the rewards.

The rewards are already there.

Mike Koelzer, Host: What was the size of Crescent when you sold it compared to the size of Kava now?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So when I brought in the investors back in 2004, crescent was doing 84 million in revenue and car fusion. We are almost reaching that revenue for one month.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Whoa.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : [00:25:00] So that's the difference, 12 times 

Mike Koelzer, Host: 12 what became of Crescent?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Crescent in 2017 was bought out by Walgreens, and sometimes it happens when a bigger company buys out something that they didn't have expertise in.

Eventually, Crescent's name disappeared, but eventually Walgreens came out of home infusion. they abandoned home

Mike Koelzer, Host: They did. Sohail, what's the worst hour of your week? In other words, what's something that you hate to do? An hour every week.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Whoa. really there is no hour that I hate. I love each and every hour. The hardest thing for me is getting up early in the morning. I'm a late, riser, so I like, anything and everything to do after 11:00 AM in the morning because

That's how long it takes me to get up and get ready. And,that's the best part of being the CEO, that I can be walking in at 11 o'clock and nobody will get upset at me.

But otherwise, every hour of the day, I love it. I enjoy life. I'm like I told you, very involved with a lot of different things. And my son having Down syndrome also gives me a purpose in life. And before he was born, I tell you honestly, I really didn't know much about disabilities. I. But since he's born, he was born in all these years, now 27, almost 27 years of age. I'm realizing how much disabilities there are and how little we do for those disabled people.

So with Omar, five years ago, we started Omar's world of comics in Lexington, Massachusetts, where the kids with the special needs are hired and Omar and his manager run it. And my daughter Lela is also working there. They started something called Pixel Paradise, where the kids come in to play computer games because she grew up playing games.

And she said, daddy, this is a group of people who are very shy and they don't have a place to hang around because mostly they do it online. So that's why we created Pixel Paradise. So some of these kids will come out and they will visit the store and they will play games. So

Omar's world of comics, and president, Biden gave a shout out to him,

Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh, cool. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : a few weeks ago, so that was really great.

Yes.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I imagine you get a lot of hugs from Omar, do you?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Oh, a lot. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I always think that's such the beautiful thing about our friends with Down syndrome, and I have a niece who's got, Williams Syndrome, which is, not Down syndrome, but it's another, chromosomal,challenge But I've got some of my sons now, you know that some I get a good hug from still, but most of 'em, it's like, get out of here, dad.

 But I miss getting hugs, cuz I know I see a lot of very loving children with Down syndrome and that's gotta be a pretty cool part of it.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : And the thing about them is that, they have,they're very, purehearted. 

So even if they're mad at 

you, it's not for a long time. So I'll just show you a couple of pictures. This is, with Kamala Harris 

Mike Koelzer, Host: whoa. He's 

a 

handsome guy. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah, thank you. And he gives everybody superhero names. So she's Miss Marvel and that's her husband

right there with 

Omar. And that is President Biden.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well look at that. 

Fantastic. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : He has his 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Hug. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : his shoulder.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You don't get to do that to the president all the time, 

so that's very cool.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sohail, how are you usually at the office when you're behind the computer and things like that? Or are you at home?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Every day I go to work, 

even during the covid time, we were always at work.

Mike Koelzer, Host: And what time are you there from then?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So I reach, like I say, around 11 o'clock I'm there and Omar comes with me,comes to my office first and then one o'clock he goes to his store and I stay at work till like four or five o'clock, six o'clock sometimes. but I like to do this from home because at work there is constant, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I

 got you. 

You're at home 

now. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : yeah. So this is my home. I'm home right now,

Mike Koelzer, Host: How far is the office for you?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : 20 minutes.

Mike Koelzer, Host: 20 minutes.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Omar's store is also 20 minutes away, so it's very close. And Omar's store is in the same town, Lexington, where my corporate office is. I have two corporate offices for Carbo Fusion, so the East Coast one I mentioned is in Lexington, Massachusetts.

But our main corporate office is in Cerritos, California, Los Angeles, county. And that has a couple of hundred employees. I have about 70 some employees

here. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So you're in your young sixties,

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : 61. Yes.

Mike Koelzer, Host: How many years will you be coming into the Cava offices? Is this gonna go on for another 30 years with you, or is it 10 years if you do, when do you, finally, I know you've got plans in place, but when do you think , that won't be in your blood anymore?

In terms of going into the building?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So what definitely, like you're asking about the [00:30:00] time I'm no longer working in the office is the time I need to find another hobby, right? For me, definitely when I retire, I would like to write a book and I want to talk about the first year and a half living in Chicago when I could only afford a Snickers bar for lunch, to the time that I'm driving a Rolls-Royce and living in a nice home, that 30 year journey,or 40 year journey.

I want to talk about it. I want to give it to the young folks. I hope that you don't need to be extra smart. You don't need to be. Blonde, six feet tall, seven feet tall. you can be me, five nine immigrants from Pakistan and accent and everything. And you can still succeed on an honest basis, not by stealing, not by cheating, not by doing the wrong things, but by doing all the right things.

You can still be very successful in life. You don't need to do wrong things to be successful. And not just doing, like for myself and my family, like I said, Omar's world of comics and all the other organizations that we support, that is really the exciting part of making money to give it back. 

And all the good folks, the ones that you know, Warren Buffet kind of people, they always give money back to the community because that is the right way to do it.

For me, I think there is another four years, maybe five years maximum. but I want to retire. I want to. Write the book or books. I read a lot of books, 

So definitely a book. Reading and writing is my passion. I love history. I wanna write about Egypt and talk about these other,ancient civilizations and what happened and what I think about 

them. Those are the things I want to do eventually.

Mike Koelzer, Host: If you were plopped down into America now instead of 1980, let's say you come now and it's 2023, so it's 40 years later,

Do you think there would be more challenges being not necessarily an immigrant, but a young man in America? Do you think it's better now? Is it harder now? Is it not even a question that should be asked because we all just have to power through our challenges.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah, the good thing about being an immigrant is that although I assimilated a lot into this culture, I still have an immigrant, I am an immigrant here. So I look and hear things, and remember them. So I remember when I came in 81 to Chicago and I asked one of my classmates, I said,it's summertime.

Where can I find some mangoes? And she said, are you crazy? You wanna eat mangoes? Do you know where they come from? I said, where do they come from? She said, from Mexico, nobody eats things 

from Mexico. 

81, imagine.

So things have come a long way in reality. American culture, right now, is much more open than it was in 1981. I remember how segregated the blacks and wives were in Chicago. huge difference. And even in a school, I remember the black students will just stay in their corner. The white separated. We were kind of in the middle, so nobody really cared. And we were pretty much accepted by everybody on both sides.

And same about the food, same about the vision of immigrants. And I remember the first time I told somebody I came from Pakistan and she said, Palestine? I said, no, Palestine, Pakistan. And her question was, where is Pakistan? Had no clue In 81. 

Now you ask everybody, everybody knows that's where some of Bin Laden was hiding, So everybody knows about Pakistan, but in 81 nobody knew. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I suck at geography. I don't know where anything is. I know that Italy looks like a boot over there. I know that much, but if you told me Pakistan and Bangladesh and Palestine, I'm terrible at all those countries.

 I don't even know where the states are in the us.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Well, I cannot tell you about all the Pakistanis, but I definitely love geography, so I always kind of know where everything is and I travel a lot. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: the thing about geography over in those parts of the world, when you take pretty much a quick train ride or hop on a quick plane ride. You're almost in a different culture, often unlike the US when you're just going to different states.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : so, believe it or not, I have not been back to Pakistan since 1984.

Mike Koelzer, Host: No kidding. Wow.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : That was the last time. And the reason for that is that I got married to a Syrian woman. So we went to Damascus, which hasn't been since the war started, but we used to go to Damascus. And anytime we go to Syria, we will go to one more, adjacent country.

[00:35:00] So we went to Lebanon, we went to Egypt, we went to Jordan and Turkey and all that. So after the war started, we have not been really traveling that part of the 

world. Mostly we are going to Europe and just coming back

Mike Koelzer, Host: When we hear about fighting, wherever the fighting is, I'm always thinking that everything's torn down. But for example, have you seen war torn areas? Have you seen buildings that have been shot down in bombs and things? Or is it like the country's so big, this is just a little part of, where things are?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : no, I did not ever see any torn down buildings

except in the movies. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: yeah, in our imagination, it's like the movies, like, you're gonna sit down anywhere in the mid east and the whole place gonna be torn apart. that's 

Now I stand corrected. I need to tell you that I saw the torn down buildings, and actually they were on the south side of Chicago. They were burned down

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : 81.

I remember going to the Museum of Science or something, and I saw the buildings, they were burned down

side of Chicago,

Mike Koelzer, Host: How many people do you see a week in your role with the company? How many people are reporting to you and so on?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So my, the C-suite is about six people, six managers, and then, the senior VPs and others, I would say 10. So six to six plus, yeah. So about 10, 15 employees, they still report to me, but I have a policy in my company that I give each and every employee my cell phone number. They can call me anytime. And as a matter of fact, they do to tell me from different offices if they want to talk to me.

So I really, I have very open communication with my employees at each and every level of the company.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I imagine Sohail that you do such a good job of managing your Direct C-Suite and the other 10 that report to you that you don't get a lot of calls from below them. That's kind of symbolic. Do you ever get somebody calling you actually,

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So sometimes the calls they come to me actually are very funny because, when the vaccine came out for Covid 19, there was,there was, this phobia, either political or medical. 

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, but employees were hesitant to get vaccinated. 

So I sent out an email to all my employees and my partners. It was very scary, but they let me do it.

And I said, every one of my employees needs to be vaccinated by, let's say, August 30th. And I started getting phone calls. I started getting emails from the employees who were adamant that they have the God-given immunity because they're all positive and they cannot get covid. 19. I said, oh, we are all positive, doesn't make any

difference. So, those are the calls that came to me and I talked to them and believe it or not, having that direct communication, all the employees voluntarily got vaccinated out of 1500. So employees, we got rid of only four employees.

 Because they refused to get vaccinated. Everybody else got vaccinated.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Somebody just want let you know their concerns and then 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yes. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Then they go ahead.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah. And sometimes they call me and say, oh, I was supposed to have a day off, and my manager is not giving me the day off. And I always tell them, this is not something you should be bringing to me. I'm not gonna get involved. This is between you and your manager. You need to sort it out. And I will never call the manager and say, give somebody a time off, because I really don't know.

, the manager knows better.

Mike Koelzer, Host: The trouble I always had with managing is, kind of having that open door ish policy, but then I kind of felt responsible for something and you learn later. It's like, you can tell me that doesn't mean I'm gonna do something about it. If I can and I want to, I will.

But it's not an automatic that 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: do something about it.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So I'm very clear with my employees when they call me and if they have any concerns and comments. I mean something that I can take care of. I do it. If I cannot, I tell them right away, this is not my responsibility. You have to deal with your manager and get things done. And most of the time, things eventually get done and we managers are very close to each other.

And if somebody said, oh, Johnny Smith didn't let me do it, I know who exactly Johnny Smith is 

and how he thinks. So it's not like if he did something, that oh, he did it for the wrong reasons. I know why Johnny Smith did it, because I understand his thought process and I trust it.

Mike Koelzer, Host: If you could have any job or position in the world, whether it's, government or, some other company, would you do that? If someone said, all right, right now, [00:40:00] for four years, you get to go do something, you're gonna be the president of the US or you're gonna be, whatever.

Would you do it or do you enjoy your settings so much? It's like, no, thanks

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Well, the only other job if somebody gives me to do it is an archeologist in Egypt.

I would love to take that position and I will go tomorrow and I will start doing it. but I'm really happy with what I'm doing and like part of it, I told you I'm on certain boards so I can see the difference we made.

So for example, about when we moved to Boston in 2006, Massachusetts Down Syndrome, Congress was run by only one person and she didn't even have our office. So Mona and I, we funded the first office. For five years, that department really flourished. So Massachusetts Down Syndrome, Congress now have their own office, they have their own staff.

So from one person, they have several employees working there. So we do these kinds of things and we see the change. But otherwise,that too many happy memories with the business that I'm in, that I wanna get up and go do

something else. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, now you got me going on archeology. All right.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Okay.

Mike Koelzer, Host: It seems like all the archeology is always like six feet down. Now is that because if right now you found one of my kids' toys in the yard that in 3000 years there's just gonna be dust and dirt on top of it and things naturally find their way down.

Is that the reason why things are buried?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : That's really the main reason. If you really look at it until the late 1700s, humanity had no interest in archeology. WhenNapoleon Bon got into Egypt in Cairo, the Sphinx was buried up to his neck. In sand. The local guys didn't have time.

They didn't have reason to clean it up and make it presentable. So the late 17 hundreds, 18 hundreds, and as the humanities interest in biblical stories grew bigger and bigger, archeologists started going to these places in Mesopotamia and Israel and Palestine and this and that, and Egypt really mostly for religious reasons, because the story of Abraham and Joseph and all that was in Egypt, David and Solomon in Israel, and the holy story of the,the Israelites going into Mesopotamia, there was a whole thing about Mesopotamia, and same with Iran.

So that's why if you really see archeology and what is going on in the world, it's mostly where you find biblical history. You don't hear about archaeology in Pakistan or India because we are very Eurocentric, even now we are very Eurocentric. 

They had no interest in archeology in India and Pakistan because it didn't play any role in the Bible.

But the biblical lands, they were all in. Also European, like Greece and Rome. But most of the archaeology got buried because nature always takes over. When people don't take care of things, if you don't take care of your house in, in, not, in 2000 years, in, in a hundred years, the grass will grow to be taller than you.

And the trees will be, leaves will be falling and everything else, like your house will be, dismantled. nature takes care of it. Just like the same thing happened in the Mayans to the Mayans in Central and South America. All these, huge, pyramids, they were buried into the trees because 

the 

jungle redrew.

Mike Koelzer, Host: and when it regrows, you get some of that natural soil being made, and it just gradually happens.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yes. Yes. And the earth, moves into the crevices, and then from there, the trees start growing and 

they're growing at each and every level of the pyramid.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So when things , in the biblical lands, when they're what, f six feet down, that's just from 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Nature. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Nature. 

Nature. 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yes. Nothing else. most of historical sites were buried under because of nature, not because people brought the 

dust and put it on it,

But that second part also happened, like what happened to Troy? so Troy was like that in Turkey. it,it, got out of use and it got covered.

And then people, rather than digging all the way down, they built on top of it and then they built on top of it. But they didn't realize that there is something underneath because they saw the land 

and they only needed to dig it so much to put the foundation. So they kept raising buildings on top of each

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Somebody was asking me the other day, how the pyramids were built, I say how was the Empire State building built?

How tall is it? Who built it? What happened? We don't even know what material was used in the Empire State Building, or how deep it went down in the ground.

What [00:45:00] were the issues with that? We talk about pyramids, which are built in antiquities. The human mind can only go back this far, and if there was no interest, nobody wrote it down and said, for future generations, we need to write it down. So when they come, they 

know 

how the pyramids were built.

Nobody did 

1. No, 

Nobody cares.

Mike Koelzer, Host: After dinner, you know, always around the table and, we'll tell the kids, everybody do your job. You know, someone's gotta take the recycle out and someone's gotta sweep the kitchen floor and all that. And my kids somehow have not learned how to wipe a table down.

 When I was a kid, my mom would give me a soapy rag and you would wipe everything. They take like half of a paper towel and they get it damp, like a quick run underneath the water, and wipe down little spots on the table. I'm like, that's not how you wipe it down. And it makes me think of the archeologists who are down there with like a paintbrush, And they're getting away like one speck of dust every minute. And I think of my kids cleaning the kitchen table. Is that true that it takes that long to do it? They probably don't wanna break something with a shovel, right?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah.but, the reason they do it that way is because they have passion for it. Maybe your kids don't have a passion to clean the tabletop, so you have to create some passion. Maybe tell them if you clean it up, there will be a dollar coming out of the bar or something.

But 

archeology is really a field that people who go in really truly go in for passion.

Because imagine in the middle of nowhere you are pulling dirt out and getting a small piece here and a small piece there. But archeology is just, it's a passion. I really don't see money in archeology. I don't see fame in archeology. I just, that people do it. Imagine, you know,that guy Shamp yon when he read the hieroglyphics from Rosetta Stone, how exciting that is.

But we know, we don't think about it because, who cares what it, the hieroglyphics say in 

the Egyptian pyramids.

Mike Koelzer, Host: have you dabbled in it yourself? Have you been to a dig?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : uh, been to a dig, but not to dig it myself, but to be there. So there was a place,next to, In Petra next to the ruins, there is an old temple, 2000 years old that Brown University was excavating. So we went there and we saw how the dig was done, and it was very interesting.

But I have an opportunity very soon that I wanna do well and go to a place in Northern Egypt where they are recovering things from,the city built by Anaan. that Anaan was the father of King Tut when he changed the religion and he started a new religion, 

He built a new city. So I wanna go and see the dig in

that place. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What feeling, what emotion does archeology bring up for you? 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : It is just that I wanna know,

I just want to know what happened. How did people live? The more I found out, the more we went to this place in Turkey. It's called Gobekli Tepe, which dates from almost 7,000 bc. So it's 9,000 years old. 

Temple which puts a whole, history and archeology upside down because humanity, as we were told, was that human beings started farming.

And that farming led to religion because they were now settled down at one place because before that they were hunter gatherers. 

But farming is not really what started the religion. Gobekli Tappi actually tells you that religion started farming because people wanted to take care of the temple.

They didn't want to leave the place, so they started growing food. And so Gobekli, TAPPI is really a prime example. So if you imagine 9,000 years ago they had an organized religion where they are making temples, how old history was even before that. So 11,000 years ago, they built the temples.

So there must be another 10,000 

years. I think that people 25,000 years ago were really living like us dressing up and wearing clothes and things, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I always think of how we look back in history and. They didn't realize where we were going. They thought they were the top of the world, crossing the seas and their boats. I mean, they felt like they were on the Titanic, all dressed up and you can go back thousands 50,000 years ago and people thought they were the cool ones on 

earth.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : yeah. So, well, that's what history teaches you, that humanity. Is very old. And,the more we do archeology, the more we will learn because, number one,[00:50:00] even the technology is not really that sufficient. 

Even now we need 

better technology and they're sonars and things

that using, which are much better quality than they were before.

And then, Same with the carbon dating. I think there we need a better dating system where we can do the inorganic stuff. Carbon dating is only good for organic stuff, so we need means to know if somebody wants to know how old is things is, there's really no true way of carbon dating, 

what it is because it's not a living thing.

So they compare with what was around or something. So there are all these questions and where the religion came from and how did people develop their sense of morality and humanity and all these kinds of things that we take for granted today in 20 22, 20 23, how was it? Back in 7,000? 8,000, 

9,000, 10,000 years ago.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I tell my wife, this is about 20 years ago, I told her we'd be at the beach, and you'd see these old farts out there with their, Metal detectors, and their black socks up to their knees, And I said to my wife, I said, if I ever start doing that, I said, you shoot me. It means I've lost my mind.

Well then about 10 years ago, for some reason, I started thinking it was cool. And so I said, remember when I told you not to ever let me do that? I said, I kind of want 

to now. And

she's like, no way. And I'm like, yeah, it's so, I get it for Christmas. And so my kids and I, we go down our backyard is down a hill and,and I'm finding stuff, 

so they think I'm cool, so they don't look at me as an old fart with long black socks and up to my knees. I would find stuff and I would say it was from the Germans bombing us. I had like World War II going on in my backyard and my kids fell for it, they either fell for it or they just went along with it, you know, they're like, whatever, dad.

You know, you can think that if you want to,

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So where is home for you?

Mike Koelzer, Host: we're in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Oh, Michigan. Okay. 

We have one office in Grand Rapids,

Mike Koelzer, Host: oh, you do? 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yeah. And the other one in, near Detroit, Michigan.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Have you had the chance to go to your, 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Yep. I went to the Grand Rapid Michigan office. I've been to all of them. Of

Mike Koelzer, Host: You have

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : 

Mike Koelzer, Host: many altogether?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Now I lost my account because we just bought Quorum, some of the quorum facilities, so we got another 15, 20 of them. So I need to go to Tennessee, Ohio, and Colorado. Those, I haven't been there yet, but rest of the country I have been to each and every office, all the Arkansas, all the Alabamas and Texas and Florida and California, and Michigan and Indiana and, Illinois 

and all over the 

country. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: about is that?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : I think now we have like 30 pharmacies. 

25, 30 pharmacies. Yeah. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: When you travel, do you do that alone?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : The Link Care one, I took two of my C-Suite managers with me, the Chief Clinical Officer and Chief Sales Officer. this last one, the one main two, man, I took the area vice man, vice President, a v p with me to go to the pharmacy.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You can go in and be like the undercover boss. I've never watched that show, but

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : yeah.

Mike Koelzer, Host: They'd probably figure you out though.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : I don't know, but if 

they visit my website, they should know

Mike Koelzer, Host: you couldn't go in as a 30 year old blonde, 

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : You may be surprised who knows that the 

technology is there. I just need to avail it.

Mike Koelzer, Host: so, Hale, Pharmacists who might be listening to this as they're pulling up to the job or pulling into home, and they might think about this show for a few minutes as they leave the car. What words of wisdom or advice or, or thoughts would you give to them , that they could either think of for a few minutes or do it for a few minutes or go somewhere or whatever? What advice would you give?

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : So for me as a pharmacist, the most important thing is that I need to understand that the person coming into my store is not a number.

it's not a dollar sign. It's a human being with true needs. Not just for himself, but also for the people around him. So each human being, as a person, understands their disease, even if they then demand more time from us. We need to make time. And that's where I think a lot of these retail pharmacy stores are failing because 

The pharmacist has no time. They're working like dogs. And that's why I could never see myself working in a retail pharmacy behind the counter, just taking these and directions there.

Just get the hell out of here. Don't bother me, kind of thing. So we need to understand each human being has needs and we need to really, meet those needs. As a caregiver, we [00:55:00] need to be patient centric. Just like when we go to a doctor who, somebody. Who will listen to us and say, okay, I remember last time you talked about this and that.

Are you okay now? And what is, how is your family? Or you were saying you were having some issues with your daughter or son and you know that's the kind of caregiver I would love myself to be, 

and all those pharmacies, not just, I need to put this in a bag and give it to this guy. 

And a lot of pharmacists get into that trap and their excuse is because, we are, we don't have time.

They need to stand up and tell, just like the nurses do some time they stand up and say, we need more time to do things. The pharmacists need to tell the owners of the businesses that we need more time to take care of these people. At Carver Fusion, we are patient-centric.

That's the only thing I tell my managers to worry about. Let me worry about finances. You worry about your employees and how they're treating the patients, and that's one place where home infusion succeeds, where we make a relationship with a patient. Because just like retail, a lot of patients are chronic patients.

They are coming in for diabetes, hypertension, in retail for us. They may be coming in for neuromuscular diseases or something else that they're chronically on some kind of therapy. So my goal always is tell my employees, think of those patients as your family members, because that's the only way you can treat is your mom or dad or 

your brother or sister.

That's the most important part. you provide good services, money will come to you. Patients will be so loyal to you. They don't want to get up and even go to anybody else, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sohail, golly, nice talking to you. That was fun. Thanks for what you do and you really put your money where your mouth is. You've had wonderful successes in your life and still have people that you want to help and be involved with and set goals and move forward and that's a really cool lesson to us all.

So pleasure meeting you, Sohail and I look forward to keeping in touch.

Sohail Masood Recording - #1 - Sohail : Thank you very much, Mike. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Thank You Bye-Bye.